Cosmos

Welcome back to the show, my fellow extraordinary Americans. Today’s guest is Dr. Erika Rasure. Dr. Erika is a former financial advisor and university professor-turned-financial therapist who has helped thousands of people approach their finances more intentionally and more healthily. 

She serves as chief financial wellness advisor at Beyond Finance, where she meets weekly with hundreds of clients working their way out of debt and to financial freedom. In addition to her work at Beyond Finance, Dr. Erika serves as chair of the research board for the Financial Therapy Clinical Institute. 

She’s a member of the financial review boards for Investopedia, The Balance, Verywell Family, and Verywell Parents. Her insights and interviews have been featured in prestigious national outlets, including Barron’s, CNN, Forbes, Fox Business, MarketWatch, NBC News Now, USA Today, and Yahoo. 

Dr. Erika holds a doctorate in personal financial planning from Kansas State University and is a certified deep transformational coach, an accreditation that surrounds changing patterns in actions and behaviors. She addresses holistic wellness in her treatment, incorporating yoga into her comprehensive approach to financial therapy. 

She’s an extraordinary American, and I’m glad and honored to have her on the show. Dr. Erika, thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

It’s my pleasure. Thank you so, so much for inviting me here.

Cosmos

Dr. Erika, can you tell me a little bit more about yourself, your background, your story, and how you got started?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, I can. 

Sometimes we end up in places where we didn’t think we’d end up. But I originally wanted to attend law school and become an estate planning attorney. My dad had passed away when I was 13. He had multiple schools, sclerosis, and as an undergrad, you know, I kind of got maybe a little disillusioned with the idea of becoming an attorney, especially an estate planning attorney. It sounded very boring to me at some point, so I didn’t perform well on my LSAT. I just. My head wasn’t in the game, and I was like, you know, I want to do something else, but I really like the idea of being able to help people with their money. When there are major life events like the passing of a parent or, you know, any of those types of things, like, there’s got to be something else out there. 

So, I found financial planning and earned my master’s, and while I was pursuing my doctorate, I became interested in financial counseling and then financial Therapy. And then, you know, I moved from the space of, you know, helping clients, you know, in the insurance and financial services industry while I was, you know, working on these things, into that space where I was like, you know what? I want to be a professor. 

And so I did that, and I never stopped doing what I was doing with financial counseling and therapy. But eventually, I was like, this is where my passion is. This is where this lies. And now I have the absolute honor and joy of working with hundreds of people every single week, helping them settle their financial wellness plans as they go through their debt journey.

Cosmos

What was your motivational factor or your why behind what made you go into this industry versus anything else?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, my biggest why moment was realizing early on in my career, I’ve been doing this for 21 years, very early on in my career, that money is so much more than just the numbers. And, you know, I’d be meeting with clients, and we’d be working on, you know, the nuts and bolts of, you know, the. The math behind everything. Right. 

But there would be so many times where, you know, the emotions would bubble up, or they’d be talking about, you know, something that happened when they were a kid or the relationship issues they have, and communicating, you know, where they’re at with their spouse. And that’s really my turning point of realizing, wait, there’s. There’s more here, and I need to determine where this will take me, because I believe I can. I can connect with people on this level.

Cosmos

And from your perspective, what? How do you define financial wellness, and how do you think is the best way to achieve it?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah. I define financial wellness as the ability to meet your current obligations and feel secure about your financial future. Financial wellness captures the relationship between emotions and behaviors, as well as your beliefs about money. 

It’s a little bit different from, you know, the idea of financial literacy, where literacy, I think, really speaks to the knowledge and skills you have about money. But financial wellness is really knowing what to do with that money. It’s. It’s actually doing it and feeling, through that process.

Cosmos

No, for sure. And in today’s world, you know, we have a lot of credit card debt.

Dr. Erika Rasure:

 Right.

Cosmos

Debt is like something we have to deal with, and all that. And a lot of times, like, when people are in debt and with today’s world, where there’s inflation on top of that, they go through a lot of, like, mental health effects and everything. 

So, from your perspective, how does credit card debt impact someone’s mental health, and what should people do about it?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, so, you know, as I mentioned, I work with hundreds of clients a week who are, you know, struggling with massive amounts of credit card debt. 

And, you know, what’s interesting to me is seeing just the sheer weight that that places on somebody’s shoulders, you know, mentally, emotionally, physically. It’s where, you know, the sleepless nights happen, the headaches, the tummy aches, the inability to really connect with yourself, and the inability to focus on anything other than dealing with your debt situation. It takes attention away from the other parts of your life that matter. That connection with yourself, that connection with your family, the connection with other parts of your finances. 

And it becomes all-consuming. And not only does it become all-consuming, but that debt also makes you feel very alone. It makes you feel very isolated, as if you’re on an island. And that’s not the case. Millions of people struggle, but millions also don’t talk about it. 

And so there’s that overwhelming weight that people carry with their credit card debt. And I think the first step is recognizing that you’re not alone and starting to reach out and get help. Whether that’s, you know, talking with maybe a trusted friend or family member, but also reaching out to people like myself who can, you know, help guide you in the right direction and give you that support you need.

Cosmos

I think many people view credit cards as easy money, but they realize the interest keeps accruing, and they have to pay it every month.

And we just want to get deeper into this. Right. So, what do you think are the most common mental health challenges that those with debt face? And what is your approach to helping them? 

And like, we just, we’re just going deeper into it because it’s obviously a very serious topic.

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, it is a very serious topic. And as I mentioned, there’s a lot of stress and anxiety that, you know, comes from being in a financial condition of debt. But what it is also is that there’s a lot of really deep-seated shame and guilt, you know, and just to clarify, you know, shame is, you know, there is something wrong with me, like I am the mistake, whereas guilt is, you know, I made a mistake. 

And so people internalize debt as, at least in my observations, something that is really wrong with them. Like, I’m not good with money. I can’t believe I let myself spend all this money on these credit cards. You know, I know that it’s not real money, but I got to that point anyway. And a lot of people, you know, are also dealing with these massive amounts of debt. You know, a lot of life situations have, you know, precipitated the actual financial condition of debt. 

So the people I work with, you know, they’re in debt because, you know, they dealt with a divorce or a death or they lost, you know, their job or ability to work, you know, their mobility, or they have some sort of disability that shows up. There are a million and one reasons people end up in debt, but once they get there, there’s a lot of shame attached to it. They’re also dealing with the situation that got them there. 

And so there’s grief and emotion and stress and shame and guilt and. And all of these things. As I mentioned earlier, it’s like weighing the world on your shoulders. And the very first thing I like to tell my clients is, you know, this isn’t so much a you problem as it is an everyone problem. 

And it just happens to be the way life dealt you these cards. And now we’ve got to figure out how to put, you know, your house back together, and we’ll get there. It will take time and patience. But. But you’re not alone in this. It. Everyone is one major life event away from debt. Debt doesn’t discriminate. It just doesn’t.

Cosmos

So, Erika, I know that you advocate for this strategy called, like, the loud budgeting. So, how do you think? 

Can you tell us a bit more about this and how this strategy can be implemented in a person’s life?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, so lab budgeting is. It’s something I really love. As I mentioned earlier, many people don’t like to talk about money. I think we’re getting better as a society at having those conversations. But discussing money for many people is deeply personal, and sometimes we think it’s nobody’s business. 

And that’s, you know, a lot of the ways we’ve been socialized. But because nobody’s talking about money or there’re not as many conversations about money, it feels really Awkward to tell people, like, hey, you know, I’m working on XYZ financial goal, or I’m prioritizing my finances or my budget or my savings, you know, and putting it kind of center in my life right now. 

And so, Loud Budgeting really says, “Let’s lean into that.” You know, when you’re getting ready to go out with friends, or you’re invited to an event, we’ve got the holiday season coming up. There are all kinds of stuff, you know, that’s going to be thrown our way in that regard. It’s about being able to say, “I would love to do that, but I’m working on my budget right now.” I’m really killing it with my savings goals, and I’m going to keep doing that. I can take a rain check, or we can find something that costs less or is better within my budget. But it’s about being able to have those conversations. 

And I think the cool thing with Loud budgeting is if you’re brave enough to do it, I think it starts opening those, those doors for, you know, people that you’re in intimate relationships with, whether that’s from friends, families, partners, you know, colleagues, whatever that looks like to start, you know, seeing you as a safe person that you can also have conversations with. 

And I think it, at the end of the day, creates that space where we can start being a little bit louder with each other when it comes to issues around our money.

Cosmos

So, Erika, I think that this would be a little bit difficult for a lot of people because you have to, because basically accepting that you’re in debt can be actually, in your own words, shameful to a lot of people. 

How do you think people should approach breaking internal barriers and having honest conversations about the subject? Because it is, it is a very personal subject, as you mentioned.

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

It is a very personal subject. And where I like to start with a lot of this is, you know, figuring out where you connect with your values. I think many people have personal values, but not many, at least in my experience, have connected their personal values with their financial values. 

And when they do, they start realizing that, okay, I don’t know if I got this particular value from a parent or another important adult or from me in my life, or from church, school, or wherever it might have come from. Sometimes we inherit values that aren’t necessarily ours; they belong to someone else. 

And when you are going through, you know, the. In the early stages of recognizing you’re in debt and trying to make a plan, it’s really hard to set goals for yourself based on other people’s values. And that includes the financial system. And so I guide my clients in a way to, to, you know, kind of lean into the area of, okay, I feel like I’m a mistake. I feel ashamed about this. But why do you feel that way? Whose value is telling you that? And sometimes, you know, we hear those voices in our heads, that we’re doing something wrong, that, that, you know, we’re not paying our bills on time. 

And we were told, growing up, that it’s a really bad thing to do. When we have experiences in life that don’t align with the broader financial system and how it works, it throws people for a loop. And so being able to say, okay, these are the values that. That used to work for me, or may have worked at some point, but these aren’t the values that work for me now. And so it’s recapturing a little bit of who you are on the inside while working through that shame in a values-based way. Still, values oriented towards you and focusing on the things you can control versus things you can’t control and bringing that all together to start working through that guilt, that shame, that anxiety, and that stress. It provides a framework for people to work in. 

And I think that’s where debt can be problematic: when you feel like you’re spiraling. And so if you have something to focus on, which is, you know, creating a new system of values for yourself or modifying the current system you have, it gives a good starting point.

Cosmos 

No, for sure, because the part where you talked about people feeling, like they’re sparring or they’re out of control, is so relevant because when you are. When you rack up debt and just make the monthly payments, you see the interest: most of your money goes toward interest. It can sometimes feel hopeless. What you’re saying is highly relevant in this matter.

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that’s one of the biggest things about credit card debt in particular that is so painful, is that you’re making your minimum payments. You know, the people I work with, you know, they come in and, you know, they’ve got really good credit scores, you know, because you know, 35% of your credit score is made up of your ability to make your payments on time.

But if you’re making 100, $100 here, $100 there, $100 here, and that’s the minimum, but you’re not making any headway, that’s frustrating because you’re out all of this money, and the only thing you’ve got to show for it is a credit score that doesn’t mean anything. You’re drowning in debt, and it’s not sustainable. And that is painful.

Cosmos

No. Oh, for sure.

So, Erika, I wanted to get your perspective on, like, on minimalism, the constant minimalism where people, where does it. When people talk about, like, minimizing your material possessions and not just buying things for the sake of buying things, what is your opinion on this matter? Do you think that can help reduce debt in our lives?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

I like the idea of, you know, minimalism on the surface; I think it’s a great thing if it aligns with your values. Not everyone, I would say, is a minimalist. We’ve got plenty of maximalists out there, but there are different ways it’s expressed. I prefer thinking about, you know, minimalism or even, you know, any other type of trend like that as a way to exercise mindful spending. You know, mindful spending that allows you to have joyful engagement in your life, whatever that looks like. 

You know, maybe minimalism is the thing that sparks happiness, not debt, in your life. And maybe you can be a maximalist, which can also spark happiness rather than debt. But if you can, you know, find the thing that allows you to be mindful and intentional with your spending, that aligns with your financial values and your goals, both in the short term and the long term. And maybe minimalism captures that. I think one of the things I like about minimalism in general is that it helps you pause before you purchase. And I think that’s a great mantra to remember in any situation. 

But if at any time you’re being mindful and intentional and you’re saying, “Okay, before I make this purchase, do I need it?” Do I want it? Do I need a second one of these things that can at least help you put yourself in that mindset of, okay, at least I’m thinking things through, and I’m not, you know, spending because I’m trying to fill a void? 

And that’s where a lot of people’s spending comes from, is they feel like they are, you know, having to spend because they’re bored or they’re angry or they’re sad, or even when they’re happy, or that they feel like they have to keep up with, you know, somebody else. There’s a lot of comparison that can happen when it comes to spending.

Cosmos

No, for sure. I brought up a minimalist because I think I saw a documentary a while back that talked about our culture. And now today’s world, like, how we spend now, and we pay later, but, like, we’re trying to chase things that we don’t really need. 

And it’s mainly to keep up with the Joneses. We’re just trying to keep up with the neighbors and want to ensure we have the same things they have. And it’s not really. It might not be necessary in our lives, but that’s how we are reckoning with death as a society. But.

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, yeah, agreed. And that’s how a lot of our spending happens, is we. We feel like we’re not good enough. 

And so we’re doing a lot of what I would call performative spending, to impress people that probably don’t like us all that much. You know what I mean? And I always say this. I always say that, you know, nobody cares about your money as much as you do, and the more you can accept that as more of a truth, because nobody does. Your neighbors don’t care about your money. They don’t care how much you’re putting into your 401 (k) or your savings account or your emergency fund, you know, at all. You know, they’re probably more concerned about what’s in your driveway at best. But even then, they. They don’t care. And. And so that’s. 

And it’s kind of hard to get out of that mindset of, like, I’m. I’m performing for people who don’t care about my money, so why am I even doing that? And once you get to that realization, it’s better. And the thing is, I think, you know, at least in some of my observations, I feel like the younger generations are kind of like, picking up on that a little bit more than some of us older ones, which I love to see.

I don’t care what other people have going on. I’m just going to do me.

Cosmos

Another thing I noticed was that, since social media came into being, we’re looking not just to our neighbors, but to our friends. 

And, we see the best versions of themselves, and they’re wearing the best clothes for their pictures and all that. We’re okay, we want. I want to have the fancy clothes, the bags, the car, and all that. 

And, I need a rack of debt. The reason I’m bringing this up is that technology, combined with our social aspect of Keeping up with the Joneses, plays a role, and we have to be aware of that if we want to make mindful changes in our lives.

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Absolutely. 

I think social media is as great as it can be. It does lend itself to a lot of comparison and, you know, a lot of mental gymnastics and comparing yourself to other people, not feeling good enough. And, you know, I think in the last couple of years, I think there’s been so much that has come out to where, you know, people are starting to realize that, not all that you see on social media is real. 

You can rent, you know, an airport hangar that has a whole set that looks like a private jet, or, you know, the filters that exist, you know, to make your face look a certain way and all of those things, a lot of people are starting to come to realize that a lot of this stuff just isn’t real. But until you come to that realization, I think you are very vulnerable to being influenced. Which. Right. Is the point. This is how they get paid to buy things. 

And, you know, my advice there, just in general, if you’re looking for advice on that, is if you’re noticing that you’re engaging in social media. You’re buying things, or you’re not feeling good enough when you’re seeing stuff, I think that’s an excellent cue to get off social media for a little bit and just start to recalibrate and reconnect with things that are real, that make sense in your life, that create a little bit more meaning. I’m not saying get off social media forever, but if you’re noticing it’s not making you feel good, or it’s making you spend, or both, take a break.

Cosmos

I mean, I agree with what you’re saying, but it’s almost like it’s a drug addict, you know, you just get hit from clicking and then just looking at the friends’ lives and all that, and especially Instagram and so on. 

But the reason I’m m bringing it up is that it does affect our finances. Because we, we want to, we want to be like the people that we’re seeing over there. It’s just realistic most of the time.

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think there’s just not a lot of people out there who are upfront about their journeys or their stories or how they got to where they are. And I think we sometimes take things at face value.

I want these things, but we want things that might not even be real, that might be rented, that might be totally, you know, fabricated. And it’s just not good for us. It just isn’t.

Cosmos

So, Dr. Erika, what was it like for you during your entire time as a financial therapist? What is the greatest revelation or lesson that you learned during your time coaching people?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, so I mentioned it earlier. And that is that debt doesn’t discriminate. Discriminate. You know, it’s been shocking to me in the last, you know, couple decades that I’ve been doing this is, you know, I’ve met people who are, you know, multiple six figure earners who would not mean those, who would not meet those classic, you know, I think old school, you know, versions of who you’d think would be traditionally in debt.

I was raised and educated in a time where, you know, there was a lot of that stuff, stigma around people who are in debt. And if you were in debt, you were a bad person, or you were, you know, kind of, you know, things like you’re not a high earner, you know, you don’t have a whole lot of education. 

And that has been the biggest, most eye-opening thing for me in the last 20 years, just knowing that that debt shows up no matter how much you make. And you know, it’s, it’s wild, you know, seeing people who make $700,000 a year being, you know, $700,000 in credit card debt. 

It’s wild. And so that’s the biggest thing that doesn’t discriminate. It doesn’t care how educated or smart you are. It doesn’t care how much money you make if you are not, you know, I would say, vigilant. Vigilant sounds almost too strong a word. 

But if you are not someone who knows much about how credit cards work, or were not educated about them. You know, you are susceptible, you all are vulnerable to getting into debt. And that’s not even including the life situations that might get you there to begin with.

Cosmos

What you’re saying about debt doesn’t discriminate. It’s. It’s profound, you know, because I think. I think at the end of the day, it’s true. It applies to everybody, regardless of race, gender, or color. It’s just something we have to be vigilant about when trying to get rid of it.

And Erika, during your time, coaching people, what is the big? What is the biggest challenge you feel that your clients have when it comes to overcoming their mental health challenges regarding debt or just debt itself? And how would they? How do you advise them on overcoming it?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, so that’s kind of an easy, easy answer. There has to be a willingness to break the cycle of debt. I’ve worked with people who have been in a cycle of debt for years. So they’ll, you know, go five years and they’ll get themselves out of it, and they do it again, and they do it again, and they do it again. And there has to be something in them. 

And I refer to it as readiness for them to make that change permanently. And if that doesn’t exist, I’m pretty straightforward with my clients and say, “Hey, I’m not noticing that.” There’s no readiness yet to move on from this point. 

And that’s where, you know, that deep work happens, where you have to go back to kind of the more therapy side of things and really dig deep and work on. On the healing of whatever continues to bring you to this point in time. Unless that is healed, you won’t be able to move forward. 

And that is, I think that’s a really scary thing for a lot of people to come to confront, but you have to confront that you’re not going to break cycles if you are not ready to do so. Sometimes people know they’re not ready, and sometimes they don’t. 

And being able to point that out and guide people through that process gently allows some deep healing to take place. And I would say most of the people I’ve worked with over the years have reached a point where they’re ready. Sometimes it takes six days, sometimes six months, sometimes years. But at the end of the day, you know, unless you are ready to make that change, it’s not going to happen.

Cosmos

Dr. Erika, as a continuation of this, right, during your financial therapy sessions with these clients, what results have you observed in them after you? After you’ve engaged with them for some time?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

So, generally, people feel a little more confident in their ability to make money, to feel it, and to integrate it into their lives more holistically and healthily. A way that works with them, not against them. I would also say that this has to do with the level of trust somebody has in themselves. And that’s kind of the thing that makes me smile the biggest, is when somebody can say, you know, I’m learning how to trust myself again. 

Because sometimes people come to me and they’ve been in a lot of debt or they’ve had some sort of other, you know, financially traumatic thing happen in their life, and they lose that confidence in themselves. They lose trust in themselves to make sound financial decisions and to take difficult actions. Over time, they rebuild that confidence and that trust in themselves. They learn that they can make and do make good financial choices and decisions. Sometimes we have a different growth pattern on the way. There’s not one right path. 

And, once people realize that, I think it makes the process a little bit easier. To trust and build that confidence.

Cosmos

No, for sure.

On a different note, I wanted to ask you: what does the AmErikan dream mean to you? And how do you go about achieving your AmErikan dream?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, so the American dream, to me, you know, I definitely don’t think of it as like the two kids and the dog at the picket fence. I don’t think that exists, and I don’t think it’s ever been listed. 

But to me, the AmErikan dream is being able to love and be loved, and to be content in my own skin. That, I think, is the AmErikan dream in a nutshell.

Cosmos

No, that is pretty interesting because normally many people think it’s about attaining, being rich and famous, the celebrity life. Other people think about the picket fence, the family, and everything. 

But ultimately, what you’re mentioning is more like a Stoic approach, what they teach in Zen Buddhism, and all that, just being content and happy. And ultimately that’s the, ultimately, if you think about it, that’s how you get out of debt in the cycle of debt because we chase all these, we buy things too. 

For external validation, like our neighbors and everything else. If you have a sense of peace and contentment within and derive your validation from within, it automatically breaks the cycle.

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

It does. It absolutely does. And, you know, I tell my clients all the time, money is an inside job. And if you can get right, content, and comfortable with who you are on the inside, and express some gratitude for that. 

I mean, I think it’s such a gift to be able to wake up and be breathing every day and be surrounded by, you know, people that, that we can love and who can love us back. I mean, that, that I think is. The greatest treasure in life is just to be who you are and be accepted as who you are. But first comes accepting yourself. You can’t seek external validation for that. You’ve got to love yourself first. If you want to see the world, love is on you.

Cosmos

I mean, Dr. Erika, what you’re saying is absolutely right, but it’s easier said than done. Are there any tips or advice that you have for us to help us start looking inwards rather than seeking validation from the outside world?

Dr. Erika Rasure:  Yeah, so, I mean, you had mentioned it when you were reading my bio. I’m a yogi, and I like to integrate some of those principles into my work if people are interested. But I really think it comes down to quieting your mind a little bit. We have many external influences in our lives. 

We hear voices from our parents, teachers, and other people, or from personal finance pundits, saying that this is right with money and this is wrong with money. And so you’ve got to be able to find a space in your life that is quiet in your mind to stop that monkey brain, that monkey mind, you know, from jumping everywhere. 

And so I’m a big proponent of, you know, things like meditation or prayer, you know, taking part in some, some mindful movement with your body. I think movement can turn into a moving meditation if you want it to be. 

And taking time to connect and ground yourself in who you are on the inside. But you’ve got to create the space that allows you to feel and hear it. And that, I think, is where meditation and breath work and mindful movement come in, and I think they are very valuable for a lot of people.

Cosmos

No, Dr., I found it very interesting that you are a yogi and that you connect your work as a yogi to finance. I’m doing the same with Extraordinary AmErika because I practice yoga and meditation myself. 

It’s part of my approach: practicing stoicism, observing my thoughts and emotions, and seeking validation from within. Because when. Once you change what is within you, you change the outside world by default. And it’s something that I do. So I found it interesting that you’re incorporating that into your work.

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, when I’m teaching class, you know, one of the things I say is, you know, I see two things. You know, the hardest part is showing up to the mat, and the second hardest part is paying attention to just you on your mat and not judging yourself. 

And, you know, it’s. It’s not about, you know, being able to. To get into the right shape or go as deep, you know, into crow pose or whatever that looks like. It’s about connecting with your breath, your body, and your mind so you can transcend what’s happening around you and connect more deeply with yourself. If you can do that, I believe everything starts to fall into place. And I don’t know if that’s been your experience, but. But I think it does.

Cosmos

No, I mean, but if you think about it, if you do all that, the breath work, and you ultimately realize that you are beyond your thoughts and emotions. You no longer need validation from the outside world, and you naturally start becoming a minimalist. 

You don’t need these things to feel happy, and then everything just changes. It sounds somewhat unusual, but it is also profound. To eliminate debt in the long term, you have to do 100% of the internal work.

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

100%.

Cosmos

So, Dr. Erika, with that being said, on a national level, you know that the debt level is now over 35 trillion. 

Right. So do you think AmErikans as a nation? What should America as a nation do to reduce debt, at least from your perspective?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

I think starting by just focusing on. On yourself and what’s going on in your. Your debt world is where you have to start. You know, I think a lot of people spend so much time thinking about stuff that they can’t control. 

And, I know those numbers out there, those statistics are ominous, and they don’t feel good. Turn off the news and turn, turn on yourself, turn into what is going on in your world. Please turn on your TV station; that’s where the change will happen first. You know, if there are things out there that you’re seeing, those, those figures, those statistics, those newscasts that are just really, really frightening to you, turn that off and tune in to you and turn on those things in your life that matter and that need your attention. 

And if debt is one of those things that needs attention in your life, focus on working around that. Focus on reflecting on why you found yourself in the position of debt to begin with. Start looking for help, whether that’s, you know, resources on how to pay down the debt. Maybe you don’t have a ton of debt at this point, but you know, I’m sure you don’t. I’m sure you don’t want to get out of control. 

So let’s, let’s find ways to start maybe paying it down. And if you are in significant debt, that’s when you start asking for help. I think one of the hardest things for people is starting to ask for help. 

But you have to start with yourself by raising awareness of your situation and asking for help first. And you don’t have to know everything about everything. And I think that’s one of the mistakes people make, is that they feel well, I’m in debt. And one of the things I hear all the time is, I’m so stupid, I can’t believe I got myself into this debt. 

And you’re not stupid, stupid at all. But what is stupid or potentially stupid is not giving yourself a chance to figure out how to get out of it, how to get help. And focusing on you and what’s going on in your world is the very first place everybody should start to make a big difference, you know, for the collective.

Cosmos

No, what do you, what are you saying is pretty, it’s pretty, profound, and it’s relevant because a lot of times when we’re looking at the national news. We look at the news and see, oh, the economy might get all the tariffs and go into a recession, and we’re more than $35 trillion in debt. 

Then we look at our personal lives and face our own financial issues. It can get pretty stressful. And so what are you saying is relevant to take things one step at a time and start taking measures, you know?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Absolutely, absolutely. And all that stuff is key, scary, you know, but if you’re already in a vulnerable or fragile financial position where you don’t feel good about what’s going on with your finances, listening to what’s going on everywhere else is not going to help. It’s only going to hurt because it’s going to increase that stress, that anxiety, that fear that, oh, my gosh, what if this happens? 

And, you know, a lot of us worry about things that will never, ever happen. I mean, that’s just the truth of the matter. We worry about things that are not going to happen. And so what we should be worrying, if we worry at all, is about taking care of ourselves in that moment with what we can do and not focusing on everything else. 

And it doesn’t, I want to clarify this. It doesn’t make you a bad person not to be invested in the world’s concerns. That does not make you a bad human. But often, we don’t invest in our own concerns; instead, we invest in others’ concerns. But what we don’t do is invest in our own concerns. And there has to be a balance there, right? We can all be worried about conflict, debt, and other issues. Then we stop worrying about ourselves. All I’m asking is for people to know and permit themselves to take care of themselves first. It’s okay to help yourself first.

Cosmos

No, for sure. And, I mean, ultimately, we cannot control what is beyond us. And ultimately, yoga and meditation do help with that because we learn to master ourselves and all of it. So ultimately, that’s relevant to this field.

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yes, absolutely.

Cosmos

On a different note, Dr. Erika, I know you are a financial wellness advisor at Beyond Finance. Can you tell us, the audience and I, a little more about Beyond Finance and what it does?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah. So Beyond Finance is an absolutely incredible organization. There is a national debt consolidation company that helps people in overwhelming debt find a way out. In my role, I conduct group therapy sessions for clients enrolled in Beyond Finance. 

And we do this several times. A week. But in these sessions, we provide support, care, and love to people on this debt journey who are experiencing that stress. Stress, that anxiety, that fear, that uncertainty, that, you know, am I a bad person? Am I sufficiently qualified to move forward and enhance the debt journey experience in a way that feels supportive rather than isolating?

Cosmos

No, for sure. That’s amazing what you all do. And, I would definitely ask my audience to take a look at that. And are there any projects you’re working on right now that you’d like the audience to get a glimpse into?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Right now, beyond finance, we’re just really working on expanding our financial wellness portion, like, of our website. If you visit beyondfinance.com, you can click a header dedicated to financial wellness for guidance. We’ve got a great blog, and we’ve got a lot of really good things coming up that will likely speak to many people who want to enhance their financial wellness and maybe learn a bit more about different financial topics. And I think that’s where a lot of, ah, people’s journeys start, you know, they, they’re afraid to, not to seem like they know everything about everything. And trust me, nobody knows everything about everything. 

Most AmErikans don’t receive any personal financial planning or education. And if they do, it’s very minimal and certainly not the kind that lasts long. We’re just another resource to help and point people in the right direction.

Cosmos

No, and I appreciate it. Dr. Erika, if someone in the audience wants to contact you, how should they do so?

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

Yeah, so I’m not really on social media, ironically, but I am on LinkedIn. If you want to connect with me directly, LinkedIn is the best place to find me. Happy to connect there. But you can also find out what I do at Beyond Finance.com.

Cosmos

That is amazing. And doctor, I’m so glad that you took the time to come on this podcast and share your knowledge, and also help people with credit card and mental health issues, because this is pretty relevant. I hope you take the time to come back to the show later.

Dr. Erika Rasure: 

It’d be a pleasure to come back. Thank you so much for having me.

Cosmos

Thank you. And I want to conclude this episode by letting my fellow extraordinary Americans know that. Hey, look. 

There’s an extraordinary within every one of us. And it’s our duty to awaken it and unleash it. Until next time. Bye for now.