Cosmos

Welcome back to the show—my fellow extraordinary Americans for today’s guest with Ingeborg Wavier. 

Ingeborg is a groundbreaking advisor, author, and speaker with a unique personal development approach that is truly inspiring. Her method involves a meta-mind breakthrough and is not only innovative but also highly effective. It allows her clients to tap into their true selves and guides them through practical steps to achieve the most audacious outcomes of their lives in business, career, and relationships. 

Operating from the Netherlands, Ingeborg’s influence extends far beyond her home country, reaching a global audience. Her fearless approach as a coach and corporate leader has garnered international recognition, reassuring you of her expertise. She has served as a coach and alchemist to numerous successful clients, locally and globally, positively impacting their lives and careers. 

Her method gained global momentum when she began speaking and launched her show in 2024. A highly sought-after speaker, Inbound, is called in to inspire business owners and corporate leaders about the power of the Metro Mind breakthrough, achieving mental clarity, and resolving underlying issues that can significantly impact professional growth and success. 

Her influence extends far beyond her home country, with her new YouTube show and podcast, Mind Break 2, leading the front lines of discussion about the hidden issues and sacrifices leaders have dealt with on the way to success in conversation with some of the world’s most successful and accomplished people. 

It’s an honor to have such an extraordinary guest on the show. Ingeborg, we’re thrilled to have you here and deeply appreciate your presence. Your insights are invaluable, and we’re truly grateful for your time and expertise. Are you ready to get started?

Ingeborg

Yes, I am.

Cosmos

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this episode with me, Ingeborg. Your expertise and insights are invaluable, and we’re truly grateful for your presence here. Could you share more about yourself, your background, and how you started?

Ingeborg

Yeah, sure. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. As you mentioned, I’m based in Holland, Netherlands, and grew up there. Did a little step to London for five years. My studies there also came back, and I had my corporate career here and then transitioned into my practice, which I have had for 19 years now. And that developed into what I’m doing now. Yes, yeah, I call myself a business and personal relationship alchemist. I will use different modalities studied over the years and my highly intuitive experience to get my clients to the desired outcome. Yeah. So that’s in a nutshell. 

And I have two sons, 17 and 20. And well, I love them dearly. They’re nice, and that’s it. And I have a pet as well, a Labradoodle.

Cosmos

So, tell me this: How did you get to this career path you have right now? What was your strategic vision from when you were in your late teens to where you’re now, and how did it evolve over the years regarding your career?

Ingeborg

Well, I did my studies in London and a bit in Holland. When I returned, I had a corporate career; I managed large teams. I liked that, but I was always something for which I couldn’t use my feelings.

And how the mind works and stuff like that. So, I helped people on my team.  But to a certain level, to a certain extent, and what actual holiday I did in Thailand on an island, which was the sort of pivotal moment for me that I decided, OK, I want to pursue. 

The other side of me is also important because within my character are the analytical and feeling sides, and I can easily switch between the two. But I wanted to explore the feeling side more and tap into and help people on a more, yeah, fundamental level. So that’s the holiday in Thailand that started my career and studies. I did many different things, like mind, body, and soul, energy work, and coaching studies. 

And a quantum touch of matrix hypnosis training. I think she works on Reiki well—so many things. Yoga had a yoga class for about 11 years or a yoga school. So, I did many things, and eventually, it evolved into what it is now because of all the different things I did and my corporate career. I made it into what I do now, so I’ll help men, women, and couples. 

I can relate very easily to people like those in the workforce. Having problems within the relationships within their team or stuff like that, or their typical personal stuff, suits me very well because I can use both sides, which suits the customers well. As well.

Cosmos

So, in talking more about your vacation in Thailand, right? What catalyst or motivational factor happened there that made you decide that this would be your career path and change the trajectory of everything?

Ingeborg

Well, I did a massage therapist course there, in Blackpool, in Bangkok, and I felt something within me that I could use my hands to make a change in someone I know. It’s like massaging; you know what you do.

 But it was something deeper because, doing that, I picked up on things in people. I picked up on the problems, and we talked about them, and stuff like that was the catalyst. What you said, like in changing and knowing that side of me, I always had it, you know, from when I was little, but I never really used it as such, and it felt like, yeah, this is what I need to do. 

So yeah, that’s. When I returned to Holland, I started official studies as a massage therapist for four years. I brought about all the other things, actually what I did. She had to do feet reflexology. Yeah, other like things. And then Reiki, then yoga, and then all the coaching modalities and neuroplasticity. And yeah, what I said, like the mind, body, and soul, I like to learn. And that’s where I am. I’m a very curious person, and I like to learn. So that’s. Yeah, that’s what kept me going.

Cosmos

One of the most fascinating things we have in this world is the concept of human nature and mental disorders. Mental health is a big issue in our business, entrepreneurship, and various fields, but from your perspective, what is the connection between them? Like mental disorders and how they affect our world today as we know it, especially when it comes to entrepreneurship and business.

Ingeborg

Well, that is a big question. That’s why, and I’ll. I’ll break it down a bit. For maybe sort of backtracking a bit, I came into this work as well because I grew up with a narcissistic mother. Which is, as we all know, I presume, a mental disorder personality disorder it is. 

That meant a lot to me. I was traumatized, and I needed a lot of work to become what I am today. That’s sad, and using that in my work is very easy for me to relate to if people have problems; I can relate to them because I’ve been through their problems—the stuckness and not knowing what to do, the fear of failure. Those are things that you have in mind at work as well.

So, if you want to move on and this is something inside you, this is the inner child part.

You have to deal with that because otherwise, you keep stuck in patterns, which I have, and you just can’t move on. Yeah. What? I set the fear of failure to overthinking and not doing the stuff. The in the relationship realm, you know, because, like, For narcissism, it’s everywhere. It destroys your soul, your identity, your mind, your everything. And to, you know, become whole from that. That takes a lot of work. 

But that’s so it’s easy for me to relate. And I know serving clients that. You can’t move on properly if you don’t deal with the issue. Being it from like narcissistic or any other thing you’ve experienced, if you’re traumatized for something and you can be traumatized as well if you didn’t get it, or if you have unmet needs, what they call it, it’s trauma as well for a child. If that’s inside of you, it isn’t easy. To move on. He keeps on going into the same pattern all the time.

Cosmos

So, you know, just for the audience to know, right, like a lot of people have an idea of what narcissism is, but they don’t know the true definition. 

So, can you tell me and the audience a bit more about your perspective on what a narcissist is and what the traits are so that people can understand what to look for if they’re dealing with it? Such a person.

Ingeborg

Yeah, sure. Well, the narcissist lives their life through someone else. So they need the other person.

They need the energy; they feed off the energy of the other person, and basically, it’s a very serious personality disorder.

Cosmos

Like an energy vampire.

Ingeborg

Yeah, that they destroy you. They need that to give a sense of value to themselves. And they have this strange idea that you are me or whatever person they need to feed off. And they do that via various methods, so they manipulate you with the value you discard; you give you the silent treatment. You’re just something they use. 

And if they can’t use you anymore? You’re sort of thrown Out. And when you’re thrown out, they start to realize that they. They need you, so they try to get you back. So that’s why they’re going back and forth all the time. There’s a duality in there that makes you the person who’s dealing with it. Losing your mind—it’s tough to stay sane when someone is. 

Yeah. You are calling you names or telling you that what you said or felt is not true. The guilt-tripping and the anger are big things as well. They get angry just like that. And you don’t even know why? Because never something you’ve done. They always blame you. It’s always your fault or someone else’s, and then they have for me, like, growing up or if you have a partner. It’s. Yeah, it’s sort of mind-blowing. But in the wrong, wrong sense. It’s destroying your soul, your mind, and your everything. Your heart. And you have to do a lot to pick that up and become yourself. Again.

Cosmos

So. So this is saying that a narcissist can be very charming and charismatic, like they can pull you in the strategy called love bombing. 

So for the sake of, like, the audience to get an understanding so they can be more like they can defend themselves, and they’re saying, like, at the beginning, how does a narcissist even get into your life? How would they become attached? What do they do that makes the person fall for it? Yeah. Because it seems to be happening a lot in today’s society.

Ingeborg

Yeah, it does. It does, yeah. And I think we need to distinguish between the real narcissists, who have a personality disorder, and some people who have narcissistic traits. You know, so that’s different. We all might have some traits. Uh, some minor ones. Like we all have autism traits, but we are not like an autist or something there. 

So there’s a difference there. But if you come across one, like you said, they’re very charming. And that love bombing means they give you their sort of soul, which they don’t have, but they give you their soul, the whole story, their love. They give you roses. They want to pick you up. You want they want to go on a holiday with you. You are the only woman or man they’ve waited for. You’re the best. In the world, you know you’re always complimented, and you start well if you’re.

That type of person you start to grow, you feel, oh. I’m really special. And he had never felt that for a woman, or she never felt that for a man; that’s the kind of thing. And they try to. Yeah. Lure you in. You feel really special. And then usually that takes about, as they call it, the honeymoon phase. And then something happens. And they start to withdraw. And then, by that time, you’re already sort of in there. Yeah. Spider web. You’re over there, and then you get that that, that back and forth because you want to get into that place. You don’t understand why they would draw their attention or why they start. Point out things you did wrong, and you start working hard to get back in the good book. 

Usually, around that time, they start to get you away from friends or get you away from families. You’ll isolate yourself. That’s what they do as well. Then the anger tantrums start, and you don’t. Yeah, you don’t understand because they were so nice in the beginning. Yeah, maybe you did something wrong. That’s usually what they usually go for. People are very sort of pleasing; they’re codependent people. Till you start doubting yourself, that’s what they want, because then you start working harder to get into the good books again. And that’s the sort of thing. Well, they will keep on doing it from that point on. But you’re, yeah, because you’re already on the web. And they’re from the spider.

Cosmos

Oh wow. And so, I was like, there’s also saying, right, that after they do this phase, there’s also the devaluing and discarding phase, right, you know, not just in relationships but also in business. Like everything there, it seems to be like all the famous psychologists have come up with the three-step phase that they come up with.

 Can you tell the audience more about these two phases? What is the psychology of the person doing that? Why? Would they do that?

Ingeborg

Well, you mean like the going? There’s the back and forth, you mean.

Cosmos

Like the devaluation, they started devaluing you and then finally discarded you. Why did they go to this?

Ingeborg

Why would you do that? Yeah, because they want you. They want control. They want the power. And if you start doubting yourself, you’re not very strong on your boundaries. You’re not very strong in your power. That’s where they want you to be because they can do whatever they want with you. 

So, it’s a very yeah. It’s almost an interesting thing. What happens because, yeah, they’re trying to lure you in in the beginning. Then you’re sort of soft. Then you go for it and think, Oh, you’re the—best one in the world. And then the other part starts, but then you’re already learning. You’re already there. It’s very hard for you, especially because a lot of people are codependent. With full foreign narcissistic empaths as well. To stand your ground.

So, the doubting is because you start doubting yourself. You think? Well, maybe I’ll see it wrong. Maybe I should do something, right? And they play on to that. They make you feel that you did something wrong because if you do, they say that many times. If you’ve done that, I wouldn’t have been angry with you if you hadn’t done that. If you shouldn’t have done that, then you know I wouldn’t have done that, even to the point where they sort of cheated on you. 

Yeah, that’s what I hear. A lot of songs as well. They cheat on you, like. It’s your fault because if you are nice if you don’t know, put on a shirt and clothes. If you stopped seeing those friends, uh, whatever serves him better. 

Something they make up. Then, they would have felt better. And it’s your task. And that’s how they feel, which makes them feel better. They need your energy. And at that. Point you’re already so. Yeah, soft and doubting yourself, you start doing that. You start? Yeah. Thinking. I should do something different because you want the nice man back. The one you knew from the beginning. And if you only did that, he would become nice again, and everything would be alright. We would live in the honeymoon phase. Again, and he did. He does that.

So, it’s manipulation, and it’s the largest. He does that. Then he’ll come round short, lost. And it gives your attention, and it doesn’t mean it. And that woman, when he’s cheating, is it’s nothing. You’re the only one, blah, blah, blah. 

And then you’re, oh. You think? Oh, well, maybe it was just a phase. He’s busy at work, you know. Maybe I have to. Do my part. And then, well, that’s what happens all the time.

Cosmos

So, in work, many people notice that there’s something called trauma bonding, like when the person with a nurse is in business, a career, or a relationship. They are very dependent on them, but they call it love. But it’s almost like if they’re not with them at that moment, they cannot live without it. 

So, what is the psychology behind it? That. Why would somebody fall in love with somebody who treats them badly? It always fascinates me because I always like to survive in my home. I’ve seen many good people fall for people who have not been good to them. And it’s a fascinating film because they treat them badly. But it’s like all but it. But. Yeah. In your words. Like, what do you do? Think is going on.

Ingeborg

Yeah. Well, what happens is that the trauma bond is like, you have two people, and one has a wound and the other one. Then, subconsciously, they are attracted to each other. And what you said they feel they think. This is love. And why do they think that? Because that’s their blue blueprint from when they were little.

So, it’s sort of familiar to them. It’s what they know. And as humans, we like to go for what we know we like for familiarity—that’s what we like. So that’s what happens subconsciously. And a lot of it, as you know, happens subconsciously. That’s this attraction because it feels familiar. It feels nice. That person does something or doesn’t do something, like if they’re in motion, unavailable. You sometimes see that the father of that woman wasn’t around. He died at an early age, or something happened, and then she grew up with what her father was there, but never for her emotionally. 

So that’s what she learned. She learned. OK, this is what men do. And then later on, she finds a man who does exactly that. And she doesn’t like it because that’s what people will say. But I wouldn’t say I like it. But it’s so deep, deeply ingrained. In her blueprint, she goes for what she learned. Finding out it’s not working because somebody would have a wound, and you would have a wound, and a trauma bond never works. And then, if you don’t do the work, they’ll break up. The next one comes around—same thing. It looks different, but that is not.

Cosmos

Makes. A logical error would make sense because you don’t want to be with somebody who treats you badly. It’s like a mock to a flame. But then there’s like all these other good people around you. Like, why are you going for a month? The flame to that one is like, I just find this entire concept. It’s a little bit fascinating, you know.

Ingeborg

Yeah, it is. It is. But it’s because you know what to do with it, even though it’s not nice, and they treat you in a certain way. You know how to deal with it. For example, with the emotionally unavailable. Suppose that’s your blueprint from when you were little. You know how to deal with it. It’s not what you like, but you don’t know anything else. You don’t know the available nice man or woman who treats you nicely, gives you attention and respect, and everything you don’t know. 

And usually, I find people who think they’re bored. When somebody is available, and there is one who is boring and the other, the sort of bad guy, is really interesting but never has time for you, you have to work hard for that love. 

That’s what you know because it wasn’t there when you were little. And yeah, that’s how humans work. They like to go for what they know, although it’s not nice logically. The thing is, we’re not driven by logic, right? Emotions drive us; our subconscious drives us. And to get out of that pattern of getting this wrong in a relationship, you need to return to where the world started and heal that wound. That’s the inner child healing.

Cosmos

So, it almost sounds like the narcissist just kind of like. Drugs, and it’s basically like cocaine or meth, and then the feelings that this narcissist has, like whether it’s a man or a woman, like a bad boy or bad girl or whatever it is, they create these emotions that are similar to a drug. Then, they will latch on to you just the way a drug does. That’s what I’m getting from all of this. Including the love bombing, the devaluation, the discarding of the gas lighting, and the push-pull—all this combined creates an addiction. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Ingeborg

Well, the part of this is there is addiction; the part as well is what I said earlier. Usually, codependent people or empaths are the ones who sort of get stuck with a narcissist because if you have really strong boundaries yourself and you’re strong, you’re strong. And whatever. That you’re not interesting. For a narcissist, because they can’t manipulate you. The moment they do something and you have strong boundaries, you think, Well, I won’t put up with that. You set your boundaries, and they can’t deal with that because they are the ones who need to manipulate and move the relationship in whatever way they want. They want to use you. 

So, there’s the addiction. Yeah, but only if you are like a codependent or an impasse because otherwise. You don’t even go behind as far as the first date. Because you pick up on the things they do, they manipulate in texting and things like that, or even on the dating app. 

So yeah, it’s more than the addiction. And if there’s the addiction, then it stems from what I said earlier. The bits where you are used to it. That’s your blueprint. That’s what you know. You know how to deal with that kind of thing. So that’s why you can stay in that situation. You’ve learned how to move on when things are tough. Well, that’s what you do when you’re a narcissist. You have to move on because things are tough.

Cosmos

One of the things that I want to put out there is that society rewards us. Stick behavior. I’m sorry, but that’s just the truth. In business, career, and politics, we see that society at large rewards all the politicians who act like narcissists and all these top CEOs who act like narcissists for their bad behavior.

So, this is a special episode to me, and I wanted to discuss this because. This is a societal issue, like a massive social issue. There are nurses out there, but their fuel is that they’re getting rewarded for this. What is your opinion on that? Like, is that true, or do you also see that in nations, especially across the Western world in Europe, in America, Canada, and Australia, as you have, and like even all in the East as well, you have a pattern of selfish behavior in politics, in business, in career? He keeps getting rewarded.

Ingeborg

True. Yeah, that’s the sad thing about the whole thing. It is being rewarded. But I do always see the other side as well. The karma. If we believe in that, does this work as well? So, they might get rewarded for it with money, buying power, or something else. But whatever. But it was never sustainable. 

Unfortunately, it does take some time sometimes. To yeah, people will see what is happening because they’re blinded by whatever the narcissist does. But talking about this like this, giving information to the public, and speaking about it, like survivors are talking about it. It becomes easier and easier for people to recognize it. And what I said earlier is the distinction between the real narcissist and the one with some traits. Because being in that position of being a CEO or whatever, they might be a real narcissist. But they might have some narcissistic traits, which you. Yeah, it does take something to be at that certain level and do the work.

So, it is so easy now because it’s like sort of buzzword to say, Oh, he’s a narcissist, but maybe it’s just part of his job. Or his position. To make decisions. And is it not narcissistic? Do you understand what I’m saying? So, it’s we can’t call anybody a narcissist because that’s not true. It’s only certain percentages of people. But they do happen to be in that position, as well as being a CEO or politicians.

Cosmos

But you know, one thing that I can tell you that I have noticed is that many people start good, right? Many good men and women are out there, and they start good and try to do the right thing. Still, then they see that the society around them rewards the CEOs who are not, who have narcissistic personalities, or the politicians who are narcissistic percentages, or even relationships where the girl goes up to like there’s a lot of, like, good men. Out there, Who? I wanted to know who fell in love with the girl. 

And then the girl doesn’t want them because they’re boring. They just want the bad boy and narcissist. And then they’re like, you know what? I will be just like this person, and then they get rewarded. Other girls for that behavior and like it’s just an example like that in politics or career or business and even in relationships, good people are seeing that, and they’re like, you know what, for me to be successful, I must try the dark side. I must try. I must try to be this type of person. 

And then and then they see the rewards. Immediately. What would you tell somebody who is initially a good person but is now contemplating turning to the dark side to get the results that people with narcissistic traits usually get from society? It’s pretty obvious rewards.

Ingeborg

Well. Yeah, but the thing is, what? I would never do that because it will come around one way or another. The. Other.

Cosmos

Many of the audience are now watching this, and they’re asking you the same question that’s coming into my mind. Why should I not turn to the dark side? I know that women and all these other people worship these types of behavioral traits and all the men as well when it comes to like.

Ingeborg

Because it’s not you, it’s not. It’s not like. You can’t decide to become a narcissist that well. Maybe you can use the trades, but I don’t think you can look yourself in the eye at the end of the day. When it’s not part of your personality, when you, how you it’s, it doesn’t work because I feel, or maybe you should, you know, discard your feelings, put them aside because we’re like what I said earlier. We’re emotional beings; we have emotions. We have feelings. What? All decisions are made from our feelings. 

So, you have to discard your feelings. And use the things to get. I don’t know. Get a woman or get that job or whatever, and I don’t think it’s sustainable. It is because it’s not because you’re at the end of the day. You bring yourself along, so you become very cold. Don’t do anything with your feelings or things. What’s happening there? The pain you cause other people, usually most people, don’t like to cause pain to others. They don’t. 

So, you have to do that to get that money—the job, the woman, the man, or whatever. And maybe it’s sustainable for short periods, but I don’t believe you can do that because then, essentially, you say that people are. Not good.

Cosmos

They are addicted. I would say that they’re addicted, but yeah, you could say that too.

Ingeborg

And that’s. Yeah, yeah, you can say that. And some people are, but I don’t believe it, and that’s not what I see. Let’s put it that way. That people are bad. In essence, some of them are, but not like the majority. 

So, you can try, and I think you’ll. Yeah. You just realize that at a certain point—maybe when you get all that—it’s not there because it also feels hollow. And then you have the money and then no feelings. Your relationships are not sustainable because of people you know. Yeah, they leave you. But your job is usually not sustainable because something happens there. So, I don’t think it works.

Cosmos

I mean, I’m glad that you say that in the book because, like, in today’s world, a lot of people. A lot of generally good people are looking at the world and seeing that the moralists or people who are ethical are getting punished, and then the immoral people and the bad ones are just going unpunished. 

They’re just getting rewarded daily; many are tired of this and want to do something right. But they’re like, do I continue? Do I stay on the light side or turn to the dark side? But yeah.

Ingeborg

Yeah, well, well, I would say that’s that well, and it’s not. You would be better off just saying it on the light side because the thing is. We see them in the media, but how big is that percentage of the people regarding the rest of the world? It seems that it’s all of them because we see them in the media, papers, etc. 

But obviously, I think the majority is not there. The majority is not in the papers on social media, or maybe just like with things they like but not the other way. It’s a very small percentage, but that’s what we see. And the majority, we don’t; we don’t speak to the majority. We don’t know how they live their lives and everything. So yeah, for me, I wouldn’t do it. It doesn’t, and I believe in Karma as well, you know, and that’s up to 21, but it’ll come back one way or the other.

Cosmos

So, a question that I have for the sake of the audience is, let’s say you are at the workplace or you’re in a relationship with a person who has narcissistic personality disorder, and you’re entangled, right? How do you escape that situation or minimize the damage they’re causing to your self-esteem? Through their antiques and tactics of devaluation and gaslighting, all of that.

Ingeborg

Yeah. Well, the only thing is one word: get out. That’s two words. That’s wrong. You know, there’s no way you can minimize the damage they do. You can’t change them. And the one who’s changed is you. 

So, it depends on your situation, but sometimes you need to start getting resources or people outside of your home to help you. Ensure you can leave that person and be in a safe space. Start getting money so you can move with your kids or without kids. And what I said depends on where you are, but that’s usually what happens. 

So, it’s not a matter of minimizing the damage because it has been done. The only thing I can say is that it helps to realize that you need a lot of strength to stay in a relationship with a narcissist. However, you don’t feel that because you’re like a heap of nothing. Basically, in the end, there’s still some there. You have the strength to stay in such a volatile situation and use it to escape it. 

I realize it takes a lot of strength to stay in there, and I use that. There’s always something inside you. That makes you stay that you can use to leave the situation, and it won’t be easy. It takes a lot of time, therapy help, and people around you if you have them. To build up that identity, heart, soul, and whatever, but we can, as people, I mean, I did it. I know a lot of clients did it as well. It is possible. But you need the healing to refine yourselves and rebuild your identity, soul, and love for yourself, your boundaries, and everything. But it’s doable. It is doable.

Cosmos

I mean in. In today’s society, and this is such a prevalent disorder, narcissism, like basically almost every single person, has come across like a narcissist, you know. But here’s the thing: I know getting out is the most logical thing, but a lot of people have their mothers as narcissists and their fathers as narcissists. Sisters and our brothers and our SIS. And even in their workplace, their boss communists like it. There are some situations where they cannot easily untangle and leave. 

So, in that case, like, what would your advice be to somebody who has a family member or like they have a spouse that has narcissistic personality disorder and they’re just unable to leave, like for the sake of, like, say they have? Kids and all of that, you know? Yeah. A difficult situation like that.

Ingeborg

Yeah. Well, they say there’s like these methods of gray rock, which means that you will become like a rock where you don’t show any emotions because that’s what they like. That’s what they feel. You don’t show any emotion. 

So, it is really hard because you’re in that situation. And they try to get a reaction from you, manipulate you, whatever. Try to see them, if at all possible, as someone. You don’t even know someone mentally unstable as someone you have to deal with, but it doesn’t get to you. But that’s the thing. They are usually very clever in finding a way to get into your system. So, the Grayrock method is for you. You become like a rock. 

So, whatever they say and do, ask, tantrums, or whatever you try not to get it. Let it get to you because it has nothing to do with you. You know, it’s not like you’ve done anything wrong or you’re not a good person. It’s them. They lack identity; they lack anything; they lack consciousness. Us. And that’s why they can do what they do. That’s why they need you. So, if you can see it from that perspective that they need you, you may feel some of you feel stronger. And that is not vice versa. 

So, they need them. Rather than, they need them so. Suppose you see it in that way, if at all possible. And yeah. Don’t let them get to you, and make a plan of getting out. I did myself as well when I was 16. I left my home because it was my mother, who was a narcissist, so I had. I couldn’t go anywhere when I was younger. But I did when I was 16. The same thing happened. You. Whether it’s your boss or your spouse or whatever. Or. You’re never going to win from a narcissist change.

Cosmos

So enberg. Ohh. Another question I would have for the sake of the audience. I’m sure a lot of people in the audience would want to know, like, how do you mentally process the abuse that a narcist has done to your life? 

Like,  a lot of people want revenge and that they want the nurses To get a taste of their own medicine, and other people say, Oh, it’s a mental disorder. You need to treat them like they’re part of a mental asylum, and you should have a Christian idea of love and forgiveness. But from your perspective, how do you, on a spiritual plane, deal with such creatures? Because they’re demonic you. Yeah.

Ingeborg

Yeah, they are. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody can have their own opinion or ways they want to do that from whatever they come. For me, it is. It is like you have to refund or refine your own identity. Because everything sort of was destroyed, my main focus would be the healing for yourself. And become that strong person. 

In that process, it takes a lot of time. You may come to that point that you forgive them, but there’s nothing to forgive it for me. It’s like they’ve done wrong. And it’s up to me to get myself back because otherwise, I’ll give my power to them for the rest of my life. If I sort of get it. UM is still attached to them.

So, it’s energetically you have to detach from them, refine yourselves, do the healing, make sure you get stronger, have stronger boundaries, and do everything so it won’t happen again and so won’t find. There’s someone else like that. And that’s that. Yeah, that’s what I did. You can’t. Go on with your life without doing the healing. You need that part. It’s. Yeah, it’s necessary. Otherwise, you’ll become bitter and give up on love or life.

Cosmos

Let’s say somebody is watching this who has been a victim of narcissistic abuse, whether in their career or in their relationships and all that like. Do you know of any resources they can use to start the healing process, heal themselves, and reach a mental place where they do not? They no longer load. They want revenge and all of that stuff. And I come from a spiritually higher place.

Ingeborg

Well, I would say, like I said earlier, the therapy gets someone who knows what it’s all about. You don’t have to walk that path alone because there is a reason, especially in healing it. It’s not to say that it’s your fault, but it is a reason why you are that codependent empire, and you attract the narcissist. 

So, there’s something inside you. And what I said, I want to, you know, really say it’s not there full, but there’s something inside you that makes you stay with that narcissist. So you have to work on that. 

So, it would be best to have someone who takes you on that path to do the work. And then, obviously, there are a lot of books out there as well. You can read or listen to podcasts to understand what’s been happening to you. Take the time to reflect. Do the work. And make sure you don’t even go out dating too soon, I would say unless you’re strong on the inside because you’re still. 

Yeah, you’re still; you’re still not healed, so you’re still. I am very vulnerable to those kinds of people, and I see that sometimes, in my practice, clients start dating too soon because the ego makes them want something. You want love. Things like that want validation from someone, attracting the same kind of person, getting another blow, and so on. That’s what I would do. Take the time for yourself. Reflect, get stable. Get the boundaries; do the work. Do the inner healing. And no, that may be very important as well. They try to steal their identity and everything, but I know it’s always there. A part of you may be very tiny and slimmer. It is still there. It’s covered with all these muds and stuff. 

Whatever they did to you, there’s always something in there, and you have to tap into that. Whatever way you do that, start self-care and like all the things I just mentioned. And make that fire, which is still inside, you start burning. Up again, and yeah. Pick up your own life.

Cosmos

Thank you. Word for those words because many people need to hear that, you know, and on another note, I know that you had this method called the meta mind breakthrough method, right, with which you used to help clients and all that. Can you tell me and the audience a bit more about what it is at the premise of how it started?

Ingeborg

Yeah, sure. The work I’ve been doing over the years, which evolved into what I do now—the metal my brick, too—is using all my different modalities and helping clients with the relationship realm problems within the relationship realm. That’s men and women. Couples could be specifically in the personal space or could be from work as well. And that’s like victims of narcissism and attachment or abandonment issues, codependency, whatever you talked about, and the relationship, addiction, or combination of those. 

And I’ll help them. I’ll walk that path with them. We go to the root cause because that’s where it all started. That’s why you may become that codependent who attracts an artist or whatever issue you have. As I said, I use different modalities, and we walked up to Part 2. The results that you want. And, as I said earlier, it is doable if you want to do the work, explore, and go to the pain, which, unfortunately, we have to do. But we get to the root cause, and we change that. Once, I use different things to get the results they want.

Cosmos

So, how can the audience connect with you and learn more about your work and everything you do?

Ingeborg

Well, via my website, metamindbreakthrough.com, and via socials. I’m on LinkedIn under my name, Mooiweer. On Facebook and Instagram, you can find me under my name. So it’s all like Here.

Cosmos

Thank you so much, Andrew, for taking the time to do this podcast with me and enlightening the audience about NARCISM, its applications, and how it affects us in society, careers, politics, and everything else. 

Many people need to know this subject, and I am glad you discussed it. I hope you come back to the show later.

Ingeborg

I will do that. Thank you very much for having me, and I hope the listeners can do something with my insights and story.

Cosmos

For sure, and I want to conclude this episode by letting my fellow extraordinary Americans know that, hey, look, there’s an extraordinary within every one of us. We must awaken it and unleash it until next time. Bye for now.