Welcome back to the show, my fellow extraordinary Americans. 

Today’s guest is Michael Fleischner. Michael is an entrepreneur, marketer, author, and speaker. He has worked with various businesses in the Education, HR, Finance, and technology sectors to improve online marketing effectiveness and results. He founded Big Finn Seo, a full-service digital marketing agency specializing in search engine optimization, paid search website development, and content creation. 

Michael has appeared on the Today Show, ABC World News, and Bloomberg Radio and featured in USA TODAY, discussing best marketing practices. He has altered various marketing-related books, including Confessions of a Freelancer: the seven-figure Freelancer and his top-selling search engine optimization guide.

The CEO needs a simple 7th edition. In addition to running a full-service digital marketing agency, Michael has developed the Freelance Training Academy program that trains individuals to make a living freelancing. Either part-time or full-time, the robust program includes asynchronous and synchronous training, online video training, and an active freelance community.

Michael also partners with permit search of a business that provides permitting data to inspectors in the real estate sector. From a volunteer perspective, Michael serves as president of the American Marketing Association. Professional Chapters Council works with more than 17 individual AMA chapters across the United States and Canada to support the marketing profession. Before his board role, Michael served as the President of the American Marketing Association of New Jersey. Michael is what I’ll call an extraordinary American, and I’m honored and glad to have him on the show. Michael, are you there?

I am so grateful to be here.

Michael, thank you so much for taking the time to do this podcast with me. I’m honored to have you on the show.

Thank you. Thank you.

Michael, I know that you’re into SEO, you’re an entrepreneur, you’re into marketing, and you’re an author. Can you tell me in the audience a little bit more about yourself, your background, and how you got started?

Sure. Yeah, I’d love to. You know, it’s a pretty interesting story. I grew up just like any other kid in New Jersey with, you know, parents who were educated and worked hard. And they said, you’re going to go to college, you’re going to get an education, and you’re going to work for a company, and that’s really how I started my career and for me; I think it was a good fit. I went to Rutgers as an undergraduate; I got a master’s degree at Northwestern University. You know, I had that pedigree, which certainly helped me get the first job. 

I also started working for corporations. I did that for a while, but something in me was not feeling truly fulfilled. 

So, I kind of had the entrepreneurial bug. I decided to try a few things on the side, and I left my full-time job to start doing marketing consulting. I did that for about three years. But I quickly learned that being your boss is more than just doing what you love. It’s also doing sales, marketing, operations, HR, IT accounting, and everything else. 

So, after three years of making it on my own, I threw in the towel and headed back to corporate. America, and again, I ran some marketing departments for publishing companies, technology companies, and a variety of companies, but ultimately left the workforce again to be what I would consider a full-time freelancer.

 You know, today I run my marketing agency. I’ve got an amazing team around me. I’m essentially running a company, but I, you know, I still see myself as that independent guy just grinding every day trying to provide value, and that has led to many of the things you read in the introduction, right from publishing books to at one time having a podcast, to being involved in multiple businesses, and that’s essentially how I’ve become who I am today.

So, Michael, one of the questions I was asked was, what is the motivational factor that got you to take the risk of leaving corporate America to do it causes a lot of people to want to do that. They’re in corporate America, but they’re in their jobs. But doing business on their own takes all of that. You have to consider all those things. Like taxing and accounting and all that stuff, what is the motivational factor that lets you take those risks in the first place? Yes.

It’s a great question because I think my journey is probably not that unique, meaning that I think many people struggle with that very thing, and it comes down to what I call deep programming. We’re so programmed. That risk is a bad thing, and bad things can happen. And the reality, especially when it comes to our careers. 

And this is going to sound somewhat trite because it’s simple. It’s not always easy. If you take a risk, the worst thing that can happen is you fail and get another job. And I didn’t think that way; I said, how could I give it up? I’ve got a wife and a growing family at home. I have bills. I have responsibilities, and I can’t give up a paycheck. What happens if I don’t? What happens if I don’t succeed? If I don’t make the sales? If I don’t fulfill? This idea of the type of business I could create was a barrier for many years. And I think it’s through personal development and growth that I realized that the risk wasn’t as big as I was making it out to be in my mind because that’s where it lives. That’s where it exists.

 So, I got there gradually over time. You hear people say, you know what, I’m going to start a business. I don’t know how to sell candy, and they quit a six-figure job to sell candy. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn’t, but they have an appetite. The risk is that I didn’t have that appetite. So how do you get there? Through snacks, you know, through snacks and doing it slowly.

So, I start to do some work on the side—a little consulting here, a little consulting there. I start to see more success. I took on bigger projects. Then I started all, all while having a full. Job then started to get partners, JVs, and other people to help me. Ultimately, I was making the same amount of money on the side as my full-time job. And it’s only then that I was comfortable enough to say, you know what, I can’t do both. I’m going to focus on what it is I truly love. And truthfully, that was even a challenge because I said Oh, what if it doesn’t last? What if I lose that client?

What if I make a mistake? And all of that was psychological, and for me, it was a place where I needed to focus on that personal development, to stop believing all the lies I was telling myself. Now that I have gone through that transition, I see how ridiculous all those fears were. None of them came true. Not a single one. Not a concern, not a fear, not a worry. And I had to talk myself through it. You know, that’s the answer, right? It’s pure grit. It’s having that desire that you’re going to get there. And I think you just have to become more comfortable with risk.

Michael, this is one question I could ask you. 

So, you were doing a corporate job, and then you’re doing this side hustle, growing this business, and having a family. 

So, what I wanted to ask on behalf of my audience is how did you manage your time to be able to do all of that because you’re already spending eight hours on the corporate job, then you got to do an additional fee? How do you juggle hours on this business, and how do you manage your time effectively?

The challenge here is that it’s not always a clean thing to do, meaning there were some weeks when I had to disappear because I was working both jobs. There are other weeks where I could balance things a little better where I wasn’t always working, and I think there was a period where I was grinding. I was getting up early. I was, you know, because I authored several books during this time. As well. 

So, I get up at 5:00 AM and write for a solid hour every day before preparing for my corporate day. Job. Then I’d work all day, and I’d come home, and then I’d have dinner, and I’d do two or three hours’ worth of work. But it wasn’t like that every day; there were just periods when my work ethic had to match my goals and aspirations. 

And then there were things on the opposite side. You know, I was taking a week off of my day job because I had vacation time, and I said, you know what, I’m also going to take a week off for my consulting and writing. 

So, I think it’s all about balance, and I think it was finding out when I could easily get into flow. When did I work? Well, for Someone Like You, you might say, hey, when I’m on with a guest, that’s my happy time. And that’s my ideal schedule. 

So, you try to do more of that and less of the more draining things. 

For example, if someone said to me, hey Michael, I need you at 7:00 every night to get on a Zoom call with me. I couldn’t do that because, by 7:00, I was spent. I’m not a night person, you know, by 10/30 11:00, I’m in bed and asleep. But. If you said, hey, we’ll have to get up and grind at 5:00. Every. Morning. I could do that for some time. 

So, I think that is one of the key things for everyone to remember. The point is, when are you at your best? Not, you know, read a book or see somebody on Insta who says, oh, this is the routine you need to. Follow, I think. That’s BS. It’s all about being in tune with what works for you and where you are at your best, and if you can tap into that, I think you can do a lot. And see a lot of success.

No, like you’re describing, you had an amazing work ethic; waking up at 5:00 AM signifies a successful business person. If you’re waking up early in the morning and have your routine set up, it’s pretty impressive, you know. There’s one thing I wanted to ask: I knew you wrote many books about SEO and marketing, so many businesses have websites these days. Everything is happening online. In your opinion, what is the most effective strategy to get businesses a bigger audience?

I think there are two. Yeah, there are two things I would recommend. The biggest thing is that you want to be found online. 

So, you know, people joke about Googling themselves. I Google myself and My Business regularly, if not daily, at least four or five times a week. Why? Because it’s like your reputation.

And what you.

Right. Google is who you say or Google. Well, it gives people the impression of who you are. So, it’s not just what you say about yourself. It’s an independent third party saying, oh, if I’m going to Google, this company, what I see is going to form the impression of, you know, whether or not I want to do business with that company. 

So, I think having a strong online presence is important. Presence is critical. We call it reputation management, but there are many different ways to do it today, both paid and organically. 

So, I think that’s the most important. I think the other thing, too, is just making sure. You are partnering with other companies, other businesses, and other JVs who can help amplify your message as well because you can’t do it by yourself. That’s the one thing I’ve learned, especially at Big Finn Seo. We love working with other agencies. You know it’s a Co-op petition. But every agency can’t do everything for every client. 

So, we partner with many agencies to provide their SEO, paid search, or sometimes website. Development. But you know, by working with those other companies or agencies, we can accelerate and amplify our brand. And I think that’s a critical strategy that many companies overlook.

Yeah. So, what do you think is the most common mistake companies make when trying to market their stuff online? Many businesses do that, but very few successfully market and get their product service out.

Yeah, I think it’s a lack of diversification. You know, things are so crowded. Online is crowded, offline is crowded, e-mail is crowded, and social media is crowded. 

So, to cut through that clutter, you must always be everywhere, which means you must be open to trying new strategies. A good example I’ll give is that at Big Finn SEO, we use cold e-mail outreach. As one of our marketing strategies, in addition to paid search, SEO, and anything else, I think I’ve gone through five or six vendors to find the right fit for our organization. 

I could have given up after the first one didn’t work out, but the world doesn’t work that way. You don’t bat 1000 every time and as a mutual friend. Just said, you know, you may have the right vision; the vision is your own, but it will take 7 or 8 strategies to achieve that vision. 

And to me, that’s the North Star, and I think that’s why I’ve seen some success where others may not have seen that success simply because I know that it’s not going to happen day one or maybe day 30; you have to stick with it. And companies that try many different things but don’t. Give it enough time; we are short-sighted and may miss some good opportunities.

No, I mean, that’s true. You know, Michael, one of the things I would ask connected to this was, during your entire time in this industry, what is the biggest lesson or revolution you’ve had regarding the industry in general?

Quality over quantity. There are a lot of” SEO companies” that are not really above board. They’re not doing the work. They’re not using the latest practices. They’re trying to take shortcuts. They’re, you know, buying links from third parties. They’re doing a lot of shady stuff, like a churn-and-burn strategy. My organization’s not like that, largely because I was on the other side of the desk. I was one of those companies’ paying agencies. Do digital marketing, paid search, SEO, and all those things. I learned a lot during that process and wanted to build an agency that focused more on quality than quantity. 

We don’t have thousands of clients but have a solid roster. We provide really good work for them, and they stick around. Because of that, I don’t need to be in a churn-and-burn situation. I can create a win-win situation where, organizationally, we’re doing what we do best, and companies benefit from that.

So, when it comes to the SEO industry, there have been a lot of changes, and it continues to evolve. But at the end of the day, especially with mobile just being part of everyone’s life, I don’t think it’s. Ever going away, people continually want to show up online, but they also want to do that in new ways, so the only additional thing I would say is that in this industry, you have to be open, you have to be open to changes that search engines are making or even new search engines like DuckDuckGo that are starting to get some action because we just want to make sure our clients are showing up. They’re putting their best foot forward online. And sometimes, that means doing things a little differently than you’ve done in the past.

Interesting. Yeah. In the past twenty years, everything changed when the Internet was created. Right. Before that, we had normal ways of doing things, like newspapers, radio, television ads, etc. It’s like everything has changed in the last twenty or thirty years. So, it’s still very new to a lot of business owners.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, surprisingly, a lot of stuff is coming back. I mean, I look at physical mail. Physical mail today is still a great strategy for many companies because they’re not competing with it. Once you look at your mailbox today, it’s junk, and you probably don’t get a lot of stuff in it, right? 

So, what used to be extremely crowded, difficult, and expensive may be a more effective way to market your product or service than ever before. Again, if you’re an e-commerce or a digital business, you are. That’s probably not ideal for you, but the whole point is that you have to be open to trying all of these different things to see what will give you some traction and help shape your.

I’ve not thought of it that way. Like where? You know, you have to do what most people are not thinking of. And most people think that physical mail is now. Who’s going to do that? Because everybody’s focused on the online. But yeah, you’re right about that. 

So, Michael, when it came to growing your SEO business, what was your biggest challenge over the years, and how did you overcome it?

My biggest challenge has been balancing growth with new opportunities. So, part of running an SEO business is effectively training someone to do SEO, which takes quite a bit of time. It’s not like you can hire some kid off the street, a recent college grad, and say, OK, you’re now delivering SEO to clients. I mean, some agents and agencies do that. We don’t do that, right?

Because we have this long lead-up, lead generation, and new client acquisition are a little tricky. We didn’t want to grow too quickly for a long time because we knew we wouldn’t service our clients fairly and would lose them. 

You’re again in this churn-and-burn scenario, which doesn’t work for anyone. One. So, we’ve addressed that in two ways. One is to create a qualified but flexible workforce so that as we bring in new clients, we have a bench of qualified SCOs who can step in and start to deliver that work with paid search. The second is that we’ve gotten more aggressive with new business acquisitions. 

In the past, we’ve relied heavily on our agency partners to bring in new business. COVID taught us that we can’t solely depend on this partner network because they may be impacted by something we can’t control.

So, to create more consistency with the lead flow, we’ve invested. In our marketing, as I mentioned before, we do not just do SEO but also do paid search, cold e-mail, LinkedIn advertising, and all these other things to have a consistent quality lead. Flow, and essentially, we’ve taken that back. We’ve taken control of our new client acquisition, which is our key strategy.

No, that’s uh, yeah, basically what you’re saying right now is basically what a lot of business owners need to know. I’m asking all these questions because most people now have websites and everything. But what I’m noticing is that a lot of businesses are not even on Google search. A lot of the time, it’s not in the top two to three pages. 

So, basics like this make the difference between success or failure in a business in today’s environment.

Yeah, yeah. And I go beyond that and say they’re at a conference when they promote their business. They’re having conversations, meeting people at a Chamber of Commerce event, or whatever people are doing from a networking person. If that person is interested in your business, product, and service, they will first Google you. 

So, what does your reputation look like? You know, as an individual as well as a company. And there are a lot of businesses to this day that still are not proactively managing their online reputation. And as a result, I think many of their efforts are wasted. They may be doing all that networking, but if they see the company only has two reviews, and you know one’s a three-star and a four-star, they’re going to. Move on to the next. Company. 

So, taking that aggressive approach there is essential because it’s not just about showing up around a particular service, product, or solution. It’s also about knowing that people will Google you directly and ensuring your reputation is pretty sound.

No. Yeah, that’s true, Michael.

So, let’s say somebody wants to join your industry, right? They started like you, and they’re in corporate America. They’re like, you know what? I want to start a business in online marketing, ads, SCO, etc. But they don’t know how to go about it. What advice would you give to such a person?

My recommendation may differ from someone else’s, but I should take on a few projects. You know, don’t quit your day job. Don’t you know, walking to your boss’s office and say I’m done. Because you may or may not like it, I don’t think it’s for everyone. You know, for me, I’ve made my career my life. Out of service to others in the marketing world. World, and I love doing this. That’s why I do it. But even I started with helping people for free initially, then taking on small jobs, then taking on projects and starting to collaborate and work with others. 

So, I recommend that I always have a phrase I use: crawl, walk, run. And I think no matter where someone is in their job or career, they must think about what crawling looks like. For them, it may be doing something for free, helping a friend, or something more aggressive, but I think people need to be patient with themselves and try smaller things before taking a big leap again. Maybe a different bit of advice. Then, you would get from other guests, but that’s what’s worked for me, and I feel that that consistent approach to personal growth and professional growth can stand the—test of time.

No, it’s. I think you mentioned consistency, right? Yeah, you’re right. If you’re starting from a job and trying to get into business, especially this one, you must be consistent with your actions.

Michael, so the SU industry is very intriguing, right? And with regards to. Like many people trying to start a business and achieve the American dream, I feel online marketing in the last 20 years has helped more people achieve the American dream than at any other time in human history. 

So, what is your perspective on the Internet, marketing, and ads regarding achieving the American dream of financial freedom?

I think it’s a great opportunity, and the nice thing is that it’s open to everyone. The other thing about the Internet is that it gives each of us many options on how to get there, and what I mean by that is, you know, I think more wealth has been created and more importantly, more people have found their passions. By leveraging the web more than ever before, a good example is I’ve got a really good friend. He makes an incredible living, and he does FB fulfillment by Amazon. That’s where you choose a product. You ship it to them, and they sell it. 

You know, every day, you can see people on Instagram who are making all this money doing FBA. And a lot of people are thinking, well, that’s garbage. They’re just trying to sell me something. But no, some people are doing it now. Does that mean everyone’s legit? I can’t speak to that. 

But my point is there are so many ways to make money online that you can try many different things and find out what works for you. Is it FB? Is it affiliate marketing? Is it being an SEO firm? Is it writing a digital book? Is it, you know, selling something on Etsy? There are just so many options, too. I think the Internet is a wonderful platform that creates that opportunity.

No, I mean totally. In the last twenty years, the opportunities that came from online, I see many websites with free eBooks and all these coaching programs and everything. 

And it’s all automated, so you can do it in a way where you’ll have clients coming in, and if you got the e-mail systems and all that—figured out which is why, like when you when with your company where you help with e-mail Systems SC and everything like it’s kind of like in the middle of this like you almost like the wild Wild West of the Internet and a lot of people don’t think of it in terms of historical events, such as the 1800s, when America was growing. 

There’s the gold rush and all that. And in the 21st century, it was the Internet rush, and you’re basically at the forefront of it because you’re trying to figure out all the SC and all that stuff and like. Many other companies are figuring it out; if you know how to warranties it, it’s a great victory.

I think the other thing that’s a difference-maker is that technology is much more pervasive today. So, to your point, if you want to sell products online, there are funnel builders; there’s funnel software, right? You can buy it, whether it’s click funnels or, you know, whatever people use drive cart; those things didn’t.

This 5-10 years ago, or if they did right, they were in their infancy, and they were hard to.

Use it today. It’s not difficult. If you want to try affiliate marketing, you can buy a course. You can learn how to do it and probably get started for a couple of 100 bucks. 

So you are right, it is kind of a. A period of time in which we have many more opportunities than we’ve ever had before.

Starting a business will always be hard. Still, it is much easier to have an online business with the Internet because the overhead costs are not as high as in the middle of the 20th century when you had to get an office. Today, you can just start with a laptop—your phone.

Absolutely.

And that’s one of the reasons. For example, I want to drive when I interview people like yourself. The point is that now if you utilize the Internet and online marketing techniques, you can become financially free, which is part of the mission of extracting America. 

Yeah. And I would also say, I think where it’s evolving with AI is a lot of the challenges and difficulties we’ve had just around experimentation, doing AB splits, multivariate testing, and all these things we do in advertising now. The algorithm does it. They even say, like with Facebook ads; you’ll get better performance if you just write really good ads and make them open to everybody because Facebook or Instagram will find the right audience based on what you’re selling. So those advances just in the last year, two years that didn’t exist. 

So, it seems to be getting easier and easier, and the piece that’s getting more difficult is finding what you’re passionate about. That’s where things are shifting because you are right; the opportunity is there, especially if it’s a digital business. If it’s online, there are just so many benefits to it. 

So you have to focus on in my, you know, perspective, just focus on trying a lot of different things and figuring out where your passions are. Mine because if you do that, it makes everything else so much easier.

Michael, with everything you know about digital marketing and technology, if you could go back to your 12-year-old self, with all the dollars you have right now and all your wisdom and experience, what would you tell your 12-year-old self?

To relax, to not have to have it all figured out. And I think that’s the key because, especially now with the Internet, I think it’s just the way it is. Open territory, and there’s plenty of room to experiment. Try different things. Ultimately, find what you like, and you can make money doing anything today. The more important is making money or generating wealth through things you enjoy. And again, that’s the benefit of where we live and our freedom. 

Once you’re connected to the Internet—and I think that 12-year-old self was probably somewhat naive about how the world works and looks—it’s not all roses. Still, it’s a great, fun adventure, and you just have to put yourself out there, try many different things, and ultimately see where your passions are. Why?

No, totally. You know, there’s a lot of times where I knew all these things, like when I was younger, and I could just map out a strategy in my head of how I was going to be successful because I don’t think I knew much about the Internet until I knew about it back in my teenage years. 

But it was only in my early 20s that I realized this could be used to make a lot of money. There’s so much potential here, but you have to see things differently.

Absolutely.

So, Michael, I wanted to ask you about your book and training program. You had the book The Seven Figure Freelancer and the Freelance Training Academy program. Can you tell the audience a little bit more about both of them and the premise of how they both got started?

I’d love to. I’d love to. I feel like I was on a somewhat unique journey, especially being so focused on corporate America, having a corporate job running marketing departments, relying on that corporation and that paycheck. And I was fortunate enough to break out of that. Mold and started my own business, which began as a freelancer taking on projects, having a side hustle, and helping friends grow over time. Looking back on this realm of do-it-yourself, I see that two things were missing. One was a mentor who knew exactly what I was trying to do: transition from corporate America to running my own business. I found finding that mentor to be very difficult. 

I’ve had some great mentors, so I’m not dismissing them. But that specialized knowledge, I think, is unique. So that was the first thing that was missing that mentor. The second was missing a community where I could post a question or engage with someone and say, hey, I don’t know how to bill a client. What are my options? And they could say, oh, you could. Create a Word document, or you can use this software. You know QuickBooks makes something specifically for small businesses and invoicing. And here’s what it costs, and then someone else chiming into that. So that’s my mission. I want to help millions transition from corporate American jobs to full-time, slash-time, part-time freelancing.

One of the ways I’ve done that is through the seven-figure Freelancer, which is available on Amazon, is to share everything I know about my journey. What I’ve learned, my mistakes, and how I have found success during this transition. And that’s the premise of the freelance training Academy, where we’ve created a community. I’ve developed a training program within that community. Still, the goal of the community is just to connect with other freelancers, ask and answer questions, share best practices, and keep each other motivated. It’s a freelancer. It could be somewhat isolating, right? You’re just working on your laptop, and just because you’re alone doesn’t mean you have to be Alone; you can work with other freelancers. You can work at a coffee shop, travel, and do all of these things that I think freelancing is uniquely positioned to provide, but I do better when I’m part of a community with a higher calling, which is to help one another. So, that was the goal of the freelance training Academy. It’s still in its infancy but gaining much traction, and the feedback has been great. 

So, we continue to push with the community and get people involved. And you know, again, that book was, I think, dipping my toe in the water to say I’m going to start by leveling the playing field for anyone who’s thinking about transitioning either from their full-time job or maybe just picking up some extra work on the side, doing something that they enjoy doing.

Michael, you’re right about the two things people look for most when transitioning. Having a good mentor is hard to find, and an online community of like-minded people is also hard because the path of entrepreneurship is very hard. But if they have a group and good mentorship, that sort of determines a lot of success and failure.

 I appreciate what you’re doing, and I would advise anybody to read your book and check out your training program.

Yeah, thank you. And I think you know one of the key things there is time compression. I think there are a lot of smart people in the world. People can figure it out, but why waste all that time? You know, I want the hack. It’s like I want to learn quickly. 

And that doesn’t Mean I’m not open to challenges, but at the same time, if you know how to set up and run a successful podcast, I’d love to draw on your experience and say, OK, what are the five most important things I need to know about setting up and running a? Strong podcast. And that information exchange can be valuable in both ways, right? As the mentor, you’re sharing what you know about the mentee. You’re compressing time and accelerating your results. And I think we can do that in a small way.

It’s worthwhile, Michael. I love that you use the word time compression, and I want the audience to know this: You can compress the rate, like the amount of time in which you can become successful, if you have good mentorship and a bunch of like-minded people around you, or what you can call a community.

 So Michael, what you’re talking about mentorship and online community regarding time compression is so true and very important. You know, I can’t stress it enough.

Yeah. And Michael, could you tell us a little bit more about your company, your big fan as CEO, and the premise of how you started that?

Sure. So, big sin, my side hustle was SEO search engine optimization. I’d launched a website many years ago, back in the day. I think I spent six or $8000 to build this website. And it didn’t show up in Google search results, and I was like, what? I spent all this money and can’t even find it on Google. So, that started me down this path of learning how to optimize websites fully. And one thing led to another. Someone said, oh if you could show me how to do that, I would pay you X. And it started this freelance business for me around SC. Over the last decade, the business has grown in terms of the types of SEO we offer, from national SEO to local SEO to content development. We do a lot in that area but also do paid searches. 

So specifically Google ads and social media advertising. Facebook ads and Instagram ads. That’s. And the third pillar of our triangle around big financial is website development. All these things are related because I recommend that clients combine organic and paid products. It is optimizing your website, building out your Google business profile, and improving your domain authority, which is kind of your website’s authority. All those things take time, and rankings will take time. You know, Google’s a lagging indicator that we can use to do everything right, but we still have to wait for the crops to grow and yield some fruit. So that takes time. 

You can often combine that with a paid search strategy to immediately appear in that number one or two position. While the SEO builds, you’re controlling more of those search results. 

And often, we got into website development just out of Necessity. We had many clients whose websites were so poorly designed and optimized that we said, hey, you need a new web. Site. So that’s why we offer those three things. We’ve had clients ask for other things, whether e-mail marketing, organic social, or things of that nature. 

And that’s not where we play. And the reason is that I believe in this triangle of SEO, paid search, and website development. Is that 20% that drives 80% of online results? I’m not trying to diminish the value of social media. I think it’s important and that’s why we are advertising some advertisements. Pricing is there, but when people look at search results that will drive prospects and Dr. conversion behavior, those three pillars are the following. So. So that’s been our focus. That’s what we specialize in. And I think that’s what we do extraordinarily well.

That is awesome. Michael and I want my audience to understand this when they’re running their businesses and want to get their websites onto that. 

So, Michael, how can our audience connect with you and learn more about you, your company, and all your work?

I think the best way is to go to bigfinnseo.com. That’s our company website. I’m available on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn if people want to contact me personally. I still say Twitter. It will be hard to say X. My LinkedIn profile is M Fleischner. 

So MFLEISCHNER, but as I like to tell people, being in the business, just Google me, Google Michael Fleischner, and try to spell it as best as possible. And you’ll see the results that I have for myself. It’ll give you ways to contact me. But you know, I’ve spent many years shaping those results, and that’s what we do for clients. 

So, you know, I would love to talk to people interested not just in the digital piece, SEO, and paid search but certainly in the freelance journey and what that looks like. Of course, I would love to see people at the Freelance Training Academy.

Michael, that is awesome. I appreciate your time and effort in enlightening us about SEO and online marketing. I’m grateful you came to the show to share your wisdom, and I want you to return later.

I’d love that. That would be great.

Also, Michael and I want to conclude this episode by letting my fellow extraordinary Americans know that, hey, look, there’s an extraordinary within every one of us. We must awaken it and unleash it until next time. Bye for now.