Cosmos

Today, we are joined by Michael Klepacz, a sustainability entrepreneur and the founder of Natural Materials Unlimited. His journey is a testament to the boundless potential of sustainable entrepreneurship. At his company, they pioneer eco-friendly manufacturing solutions with a strong foundation and sustainable business practices. He has successfully transformed his passion for green innovation into a thriving enterprise. 

Michael’s journey is a testament to the fusion of financial acumen with sustainable development. From an Air Force veteran, he has emerged as a leader in Poland’s startup ecosystem. 

His insights on how sustainable principles can drive business success and financial freedom offer a unique perspective on integrating ecological responsibility with economic growth. He’s also the co-founder of the Central European cannabis firm, a platform that unites all cannabis industry professionals to advance the industry. 

Michael

Michael, I want to express my sincere gratitude for your time sharing your journey and insights with us. Your perspective is not just valuable; it’s truly enlightening.

Cosmos

Thank you, Michael, for taking the time to share your journey with us. Your insights are not just valuable; they are enlightening. So, Michael, for the sake of our audience, could you tell us a little more about yourself, your background, and how you got started? Your story is sure to inspire many of our listeners.

Michael

Let’s delve into Michael’s background and journey. Born in 1985 in Toledo, Ohio, Michael’s life took a significant turn when he enlisted in the military at 18. His journey from an aircraft mechanic in school to a leader in Poland’s startup ecosystem is a testament to the transformative power of personal resilience and adaptability, marked by significant events such as the 9/11 attacks that reshaped the aviation industry. 

My journey has been shaped by personal experiences, including 9/11, significantly shaping my entrepreneurial journey and commitment to sustainability. After the Air Force, I was transitioning, waiting for the new GI bill to start. During this time, I began to apply the skills I had gained in the Air Force and started innovating, inventing, and searching for my life’s passion.

Cosmos

So, Michael, your journey is very interesting. You started in the Air Force and ultimately went to Poland when you started your businesses. Can you tell me about your strategic vision from when you joined the army to when you started your own business and entrepreneurship? And how did your life and career vision evolve over the years?

Michael

So, if you like, you can return to being 15, right? I’m 15. The planes hit the Twin Towers. My dream of making $40.00 an hour within three years of finishing school went down the toilet. 

And so, I joined the Air Force. And I maintain myself, you know, like I am. I don’t become like an. I mean, it was the Air Force. Right. It was like the Marines or anything. 

So, I maintain somewhat of my original personality without being too strict. Right. I was taught 6 Sigma in the Air Force, and I thought, I’m 20 years old. By age 25, I will have three kids from having a snowmobile, jet ski, an SUV, and all that stuff. And none of that ended up happening, you know, instead. Fast forward to actually being 25. I’m now in Southern California. Completely unsure of what I was going to do with my life, right before that, I thought I was going to be a chiropractor, so after transitioning from the Air Force, I thought I was going to go to school to be a chiropractor, but then I realized I didn’t want to. I didn’t want to start from zero at 30 after finishing school with all that debt. And then you can only make money when seeing people you know like.

So, I didn’t want to have a solopreneur thing. Right.

I had read Rich Dad and Poor Dad, which made me realize that I wanted to be a business owner, not a small business owner. If people are familiar with his four quadrants—employee, small business, big business, and investor—then it’s like, who wouldn’t want to be a big business, right? 

So, I’m like, OK, well, how can I? I need to rearrange my life so I can get jobs. Essentially, right? And so, for me, the core focus of entrepreneurship is making jobs. The more jobs I can create, the more money I get to take home.

So, when I immediately ran away from the idea of a chiropractor, I started looking at agriculture, and I started looking at it through the lens of Six Sigma and Lean. I started thinking, OK? Where’s the waste? Where can things be more efficient? Where can things be? Where has innovation stopped? 

And so, I started looking at every type of greenhouse I could find. I went into geodesic domes, standard greenhouses, in-ground greenhouses, and everything else. And I fell in love with it. Regenerative agriculture and that just. It slowly transformed, and I ended up while being in Southern California. I took this course for veterans at UCLA for Entrepreneurship, and that’s what really, just like, lit the fuse. You know, like, I knew for years prior. So. This is 2011, when I was at UCLA, but pretty much from then on. 2007 until 2011, that’s four years I’m going. I need to do something. I need to do something. What’s it going to be, you know? 

So, I invented a product and thought, OK, I will take this to market and try to sell it, and we’ll see what happens. Then, I can employ people to build this product and sell it. And it’s always been about creating stuff and creating jobs. And yeah, sustainability has become more and more of a focus.

Cosmos

So, Michael, your journey is very interesting because many people would not even think about entrepreneurship because of the many risks involved. There’s so much uncertainty. Even though you read Rich, there’s so much doubt that many people read it. But to take that jump into this world and go on that journey where you’re even, like, inventing. The product is amazing. 

So, my question is, what is the motivational factor that would drive you forward? Why, even when there’s potential for massive setbacks and things aren’t working out?

Michael

Yeah, I think I think that. I guess it just depends on how you want to. Define. Risk, you know, like these days, I find having a job to be risky. You know, it’s like you.

Cosmos

I love your perspective.

Michael

Could you? I mean, yeah, but it’s true, though, right? So, it’s like. You get a job, and you know you’re kind of like standing in a river, and the river is flowing around you, and everything’s constantly changing. You’re never standing in the same river twice, kind of, you know, and it’s like one day someone younger shows up, and if you don’t put yourself in the position where you are indispensable, then you’re disposable. You know what I mean? 

And that’s the world we live in today. Like, we don’t live in this World War Two era where people grow up through, you know, the World War Two Vietnam, Korean War era where Everyone will work at the same place for 40 years and get a pension. You know what I mean? Like people, the turnover is like two to three years. People are getting fired. People are, you know, constantly growing. And so yeah, how do you define risk? So, I think a smaller risk is if you can believe in yourself.

I mean, if you’re not useless, you can. You can succeed in entrepreneurship like you just. You mostly just have to show up. 80% of the job is doing what you say you’re doing. To. Communicate if you can’t, and do not avoid it; just show up. You know what I mean? 

So, it’s like they’re you’d be surprised at a company that will be like, hey, bid for a job. You know, say they put out the bids. Fifty companies apply, 25 of them. Put in applications. Fifteen of those are half-asked. Ten of them are great, and then five stick out. 

Then, from those five, they get fixed. You know, you end up picking the most competent person, and so it’s like, I think a lot of people who are afraid of entrepreneurship and people who. I just want to have that steady paycheck. They’re just those who haven’t taught themselves how to delegate their lives. Self-management is a big deal. You know, we all know we all know the worst employee we’ve ever met. You know what I mean? A good employee is barely better than that person sometimes, you know. 

And so, I don’t know. We need, but we need more entrepreneurship, though, you know, I mean, we need more small businesses. We like if COVID taught us anything. The thing is, we need more manufacturing stateside. We need more, like America 40 years ago, which was not a service-based country. Now it’s all service. It’s all restaurants, churches, software, development, and social media. This and that like there’s. Not a lot of my friends. Dean would love me to say this, but like there’s like three 3% of clothing is made in America. It used to be extraordinarily higher than that. You know, I don’t know. I’m. I’m all about self-reliance.

Cosmos

No, I mean, that is what made America extraordinary. Right. Like we were self-sufficient. And we didn’t—import products. We were. We were export-oriented, and what you mentioned about life during World War Two in the 1950s and 1960s, so. Well, and like you could. Be in the same place for 40 years. 

And then, basically, get a pension, and you don’t have to worry, and like, the one income could maintain a household. But now you do it.

The removal of the gold standard and the transition to a Fiat monetary system, the continuous printing of money, and a debt-based culture have led to the situation where to live it up with the Jones, you have to have two incomes at the minimum, even then, it’s not enough, and you’re going into debt. And now you have to work one or two jobs, and it’s like a filing process. You. Know it’s different.

Michael

Yeah, sure.

Cosmos

It’s a different world we’re living in. So, what you’re saying is relevant.

Michael

Yeah, yeah, it’s a completely different place. It’s like, oh. And it’s just like, let’s not even start talking about AI. However, the hell that’s going to change everything.

Cosmos

I talked about AI with many of my other guests, and automation will take out even more jobs.

Michael

You know what? I mean, like? Sure. I mean, lawyers should be terrified. For example, I can upload all 1000 law books for every state or whatever to some database and have a digital lawyer.

Cosmos

Wow.

Michael

You know, a digital lawyer without all the language ******** they threw at you to sound important.

Cosmos

It’s important like that. That sounds. It sounds absurd on the one hand, and it’s so relevant and true on the other. What an age we’re living in, aren’t we, Michael? It’s so.

Michael

Yeah, we’re. I mean, it’s never felt better to be blue-collar. You know what I mean? Like, I am not any robot going to stop doing what I do. You know what I mean? They can’t stop me. Robots can’t do what I do.

Cosmos

1. So, Michael, just to add this to continue, you know how America was in the 1950s and 1960s. How would America be in the 20 fifties and twenty-sixties with the full implementation? Yeah. Let’s say I had somebody ask you for your prediction of the future and how it will change the economy. Altogether, how would you spell it?

Michael

I don’t know. It’s an interesting question, right? Because like it could go, it could go like. I mean the best-case scenario. It’s the worst-case scenario or somewhere down the middle, you know what I mean. And so, if we were going to go somewhere down the middle, you must also understand that I’m biased towards sustainability, right? I’m always looking into the future because. The things that I’m doing now in sustainability and stuff like that are that I want to affect the future, and according to Governor De Santis, I’m a green zealot—radical green zealot, whatever that means. 

So, 20/50 means that we have finally figured out how everyone can have this American-style quality of life through innovation and proper resource management with AI: clean water, clean water, clean earth food. You know, what is a good life? It’s Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. Right?

 So, we need sustainable, affordable housing. We’ll have. Smart houses. You know what I mean? Maybe I’ll have windows that can completely black themselves out, and I can live in darkness. At night, when I want to have my circadian rhythm properly, there are so many sci-fi movies that make the future look awesome, but it’s like, are we creating a future that’s more like Star Trek? You know where it’s super high-tech, with tons of AI. I’m not trying to say, like, cashless society or anything like that, but it feels like we’re heading there, you know, like, I wonder who will control those cashless societies, right? Will it be an open-source thing like Bitcoin? But yeah, I hope.

Cosmos

You’re heading there.

Michael

In 2050, we’ll be using less than one planet’s resources. If everyone lived like Americans, we would need five planets for resources.

 And so, I think that’s part of the goal of figuring it out. How to have it by 2050? It is a sustainable leap forward and still has an awesome existence without living in loincloths and mud huts. Not that I think that would be a bad thing, but I don’t think most people would enjoy it. You know what I mean? But yeah, like, I wonder, what does clothing look like? What kind of dyes are we using for clothing? What do our grocery stores look like? What does the packaging look like? Do you know if plastic waste is still huge? You. What are we doing with the synthetic stuff? That’s creating microplastics and stuff. And so, it’s like, by 2050, have we once again restored the Earth’s ability to create life properly, and all the cycles are proper? And then we can just kind of live in abundance, right?

As humans, we should be able to supercharge nature’s natural processes and live in harmony rather than fighting nature and creating all these dead zones, green deserts, and other things. I don’t know if I answered your question, but I see a beautiful future with AI included.

Cosmos

So. So I agree with you. However, there are two modes of thought, right? There’s the old way of doing things in a new way, like whenever you had, like the industrial revolution when it happened, right? And there was massive technology. They changed. 

Many people lost their jobs for some time and had to recalibrate and learn new skills. But right now, there’s a movement and an account movement. There’s a movement to the future in America, the Western world, and the whole movement. That’s stuck in the ways of the past.

Cosmos

And they have. We’re in the middle of this massive transition time, especially with automation, where many people will lose jobs. And then what are they going to do? They have to learn new skills but are used to doing things a certain way. And then this is where it’s like a danger zone, where it will create a lot of danger.

Unrest in a lot of chaos, but I don’t know your opinion on that.

Michael

I mean, my opinion is that things change, you know, so like. The first example that popped into my mind while you were talking was 77711. We call it Jacka. It translates to frog, and so they introduced it. It’s a self-checkout, right?

 And now it’s not that the person who works inside Jacka has nothing to do, right? And it’s also not that there needs to be 0 people inside Jacka. So now it’s more or less his job, like before, when he had to run the cash register. I also do customer service, clean the store and stock shelves, and do all these other things. 

Now he just has one less thing to do, and now he can concentrate on making the store look good and keeping the shelves stocked. The place just looks so much better. It functions so much better now that the burden of constantly caring for clients is off his shoulders. And so like, I just, you know, I wonder, you know, it was. It’s. Like. At one point, a bunch of blacksmiths lost their jobs because there were a lot fewer horses being used. You know what I mean? And then those blacksmiths, you know, they learned how to hammer sheet metal, you know, and like, make bumpers for cars or whatever, you know. 

And so, I think that there are there, there are. There’s always going to be jobs for everybody. You know what I mean? A lot of people are talking about it. You know, 15% of the world has an IQ of under 80 or something like that, which means they’re so unintelligent. I suppose they’re not even allowed to go into the army, which is pretty low intelligence. And those people even have some employment. 

So, you know, I see all these. They have robots now that can perfectly pick a Raspberry without hurting it. You know what I mean? That’s pretty wild, you know? 

And so, like, I think that. So many things are going to be wildly automated, like greenhouses, automated planting seeds, automated harvesting, and fruits and vegetables, like all of the kinds of dumb, terrible ****, can just be automated. But then what do you do with all of those people who would? Normally. Do those. Like easy labor, right? The answer is, I don’t know. You know what I mean? It’s like I think that any person can learn a trade. Do you know what I mean? We will have 3D-printed buildings. We already do. You know, it’s, but it will. It will take off, you know, 

So, what do what do?

Think that there’s just. There’s just going to be an evolution. You know, there’s always going to be. Some kind of technology displaces jobs, and new tasks will always be needed because of it. You know. So.

Cosmos

Yeah, I mean that that’s just how you’re right. That’s how history has always been, right? You always have technological revolutions, and then you have this transition, but then you have a new future. Then you and it’s always about whether you will adapt and accept or be stuck in the old ways.

Right, sure.

Cosmos

Yeah. And that’s all his painful change. But ultimately, when you go through that period, it leads you to a higher level altogether. I also wanted to ask you, Michael, one thing about sustainable, eco-friendly entrepreneurship connected with the feature. How do you see the intersection of automation and sustainable entrepreneurship going forward? Do you think that there is going to be something else?

Michael

Well, this is what I’ve been telling everybody, and no one has been able to refute me that sustainability is not going away. You know what I mean? Like it’s not going to. Slow. Down, so sustainability is not going away. Even in a down economy, sustainability is not going away. It is like the focus. Right now. 

And so, I think that the more sustainability-minded you are as an entrepreneur, the more relevant you will be for the future that’s trying to be built, you know, like, I mean, there’s a lot of money. Frankly speaking, in the transition from. Just like there was a lot of money from steam and coal to, you know, petrol and plastics, there’s going to be a big push into sustainability. And I think that is being politicized right now because everyone’s saying that only the tyrants want things to be sustainable right again.

Cosmos

I was thinking the same thing because, uh, basically, like you’re the wording that you use is people, like a lot of people will be like, oh, green New Deal or something, something like that when you’re just being environment friendly. Still, you’re also doing business and entrepreneurship at the intersection of that, you know.

Michael

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think I was. I said this the other day on TikTok; I posted my first TikTok video because I got angry, and it’s not radical, you know what? Scratch that thought. We human beings should be able to live to be 120. Our meat suits are designed to be able to. It expires around the age of 120, which is wild. You know it’s wild because you look back at the 1940s; people in India lived until their early 30s. You know, I mean, my great grandparents all died in their mid-50s, you know, they were all born in Poland, and they immigrated to an industrial section of America. And they worked in the industrial sector. 

And They died in there. 50s, you know, I mean, my grandparents all died in their early 70s to late 80s, early 90s. You know what I mean? And it’s. Like. We’ve created we’ve created a world right now that’s so funded by greed in some form or another that we would rather slowly poison ourselves, which is exactly what we’re doing. 

So, we can have some profit. You know, and I just wonder to myself, like, can’t we do both? Can’t we do business in such a way that it increases our quality of life and the quality of our biosphere and makes a profit? How crazy.

Cosmos

Michael, you brought up such a relevant point because many people in the oil industry use science. They make multiple reports to discredit environmentally friendly policies, and they all do it for the sake of money because, even like politics, everything is run by money.

Money, like money, is just going to be the influencing factor, and everything, like everybody, becomes biased on what makes profit in today’s world.

So, we have to create the one practical thing we can. Do we? We have to find a way to create profits through sustainability. And that’s the way it’s done. But Many people, like big corporations, don’t want that to happen because they’re already making so much money with how they are and doing things now.

Michael

Honestly, I don’t know if I agree with it or not. There’s this whole BSG movement and all this other stuff that I’m not a part of. But from what I understand, bank shareholders are demanding that, and I’ve talked to bankers, so I’m saying this. 

So, it’s not the banks. Bank shareholders demand that they only do business with businesses that aren’t making things worse. They’re only so if you, just say, you know, you’re like, OK, I want to start up a paper mill, and I require 150 million. I want to go to the bank to make it happen.

So, you go to this big commercial bank and say, hey. We want to start a paper mill, and they say, well, look, if you don’t have these many sustainable points, we’re not going to fund your project, right? If you can’t prove that by producing XYZ, you won’t devastate. The landscape. Then we won’t fund your projects because our shareholders want it. Therefore, we want it. And then we also have, you know, laws being put in place that are doing extraordinary things, you know? 

I live in Europe, where things are way more progressive. I think it was December 22 that the European Union started talking about banning product imports that result in deforestation in the country of origin. 

And so, being in sustainability and packaging, I’m always thinking about these wooden forks and knives. You know, the forks don’t work like a fork, and the knife doesn’t work like a knife, but either way, we fumble through it, and that is all pretty much. A lot of it is made in India or China from wooden veneer. You know, similar to how toothpicks are created. But instead of chopping them into toothpicks or matchsticks, we’re punching out the shapes of forks and knives. 

And so, it’s like if the company producing that can’t prove that. They’re using fewer forests than the force can replenish itself, and it’s banned from import to—the European Union. You know, and then, at the same time, here in the European Union. 

So, in Poland, for example, the trees are some for another. Hence, forestry in Poland became so prohibitively expensive that they started importing wood from Argentina to make paper here in Poland. So, they import the trees from overseas and then turn them into paper. You know? 

And so, it’s like, I don’t know, there’s just there’s this weird, like, there’s this weird globalization movement that I’ve witnessed since being a kid where, you know, you’re where are you, by the way, which state are you in?

Cosmos

Florida.

Michael

Here in Florida, OK, so Florida oranges are awesome, as are California oranges. Awesome. But have you ever visited a Florida store and seen oranges from a different country on the shelf?

Cosmos

Not really.

Michael

Not really. OK, well, I did in California, you know? So, I’m in California. Also, I saw an orange from Peru, the land of oranges, avocados, and almonds. For what? Like there’s oranges in our backyard? Well, probably because they are. Because by the time you bought them from Peru, put them in a container, brought them to California, and paid all the import fees and stuff, you were saving. Maybe $0.05 per pound or whatever it was, but either way, that was that savings. You know what I mean?

And so, we’re so bent as a society, especially in America, at maximizing profit that we refuse to let go of that $0.05. You know what I mean? If you can create a T-shirt in America for $10, but you can import a shirt for $9, why wouldn’t you do it?

 But you’d be stupid with finger quotes not to do it. You know what I mean? But then the result of importing versus. Supporting your local economy is drastically different, you know, I mean, and that happens to me all the time. 

One of my favorite new stories recently is I had an entrepreneur. They’re selling a meditation pillow on Amazon. They’re buying the meditation pillow. They’re selling it for 35 euros. They bought it in China for €5. When they buy it from China, they have it shipped to pay for imports, VAT taxes, etc. It’s about 11:10 to €11.00 per unit. Now, I could have made it here in Poland. Polish labor, European fabrics, better zippers, better fabric, better quality. They would have rated higher on Amazon. And it would have cost €1.00 more per unit, and they didn’t call me back like they could have charged €40. Instead, it was €1.00.

So, we’re allergic. I want to spend more, and I like what I kind of do in my world, right? Because sustainable materials are more expensive. I try to save money with process efficiency, right? Like, I don’t try to save money on materials, right? Like I like. The materials I use dictate the price of the products I can offer to the market, and there are buyers for those products, but I save money by being efficient. I don’t save money by cutting costs on materials. You know, it’s just a losing game. That’s why. China is so powerful now because the world has made China their factory.

Cosmos

No, I mean, Michael, you bring up such a relevant point about the global economy; I would like to add that in America, we have a very individualistic, profit-oriented culture when it comes to business. 

So, what you’re saying is right. The culture is all about profit above everything else. It’s not about sustainability or the like. There’s a huge section of the. Population in America that is environmentally sustainable, but they’re not really. There’s not enough amongst them. They’re doing this like it’s been polarized in such a way that people who do business seem to be. On the right and like the right, it is associated with the oil industry. People see it through that polarity lens, but they need to do both. 

But the fact is, in America, I don’t know much about Europe. It is an individualistic culture based on profits above everything else, and there has to be a counterculture, but it’s too slow to emerge.

Michael

Yeah. Yeah, it’s, it’s. Interesting, right? Because like so, so like, I’m not like a. I’m. I’m not really like a consumer. Person, you know what I mean? Like I’m not. I’m not really into consumerism like this T-shirt. Which is organic cotton I like. Forty of them, all in different colors. Some of them are in the same right. But all I have to do is walk into my closet and pick the T-shirt on the rightmost side. And I know that’s the longest T-shirt in my closet, whatever color. That’s the color I’m wearing today. You know what I mean? Like, I did not choose to wear orange on this recording. It just so happened that I picked orange this morning when I took my daughter to school, you know? And so on. 

So, we have this consumerist and profit-driven society, and you’re right that you, you know, I consider me to be pretty centered. Because I’m centered, I’m leftist to the people on the right, and I’m far right to the people on the left, and that’s always a funny argument. It’s like it’s not even. I’m an enigma, bro. Like I don’t do sports. I’ve never played an A-team sport. I mean, I played soccer for like 2. Years. I tried playing soccer in elementary school my first year but hated it. Like I hate to try. I hate the tribalism. I hate—the color wars. You know what I mean? Jesse Ventura wrote their book The Democrats and the Red Blood Likins. 

And I thought it was a hilarious play on words. And it was a great book, but it’s like. I don’t know. We used to be way more focused on just how to make our lives better rather than who’s right and who’s wrong and everyone’s got their perspective and this counterculture like, people like me who are in the counterculture, right, like they, you know, they go to Bernie, man. They take mushrooms and Whatever they want, socialism, or whatever they want—communism in America or something like that. 

But it’s just like Someone needs to create, you know, someone needs to make things. Someone needs to provide for the society and the culture. And like they’re, they just seem to be now. People just want to sit around. Have a job and get paid for as little effort as possible. You know what I mean? But of course, there’s the counterculture of people who want to work their ***** off. They want to improve their society, they want to improve their culture, and they, I don’t know, they want to make things better. 

So, I don’t know. I hope that more people wake up. I’m working on a book about manufacturing because we need more manufacturers. And we don’t need more manufacturers doing super crazy high-tech stuff. We need manufacturers. We need people making chairs and tables. 

We need people making the basics. You know what I mean? It can be an artisan doing it in his garage. It can be a couple of people doing it. Well, you know what there’s like, there’s this place in Portland, OR. If you want to start your textile brand, you can go there and use all of their machines. It’s like you and your friends could go tomorrow to Portland, OR 5 of, and start your clothing brand and sewing your clothes, purses, accessories, etc. It’s amazing how easy it is to get into manufacturing, too, especially with textiles. It’s like you just buy a $1000 sewing machine. You can also turn some cheap fabric you bought from Texas with a sewing machine into value-added products that make great margins. You know, I don’t know. They’re just they’re there’s a will. There’s a way, you know.

Cosmos

So, Michael is one of them to attract to this, right? So, you’re talking about manufacturing, and America used to manufacture like a powerhouse. But then they realized that labor is cheap and 3rd, in 3rd world countries, just so much. It is easier to make profits in all countries. Like if you out. As a company owner if you look at it from the perspective of the entrepreneur, if you’re a company owner and hire employees in 3rd world countries. You outsource the manufacturing. The products get made much cheaper, and you just make more profits that way.

So, like and like, basically, with the monetary system becoming Fiat, the monetary system since 1970, when it was taken out of the gold standard, is not backed by anything tangible. The backs are just printing money. So, manufacturing in the US is becoming more expensive, and everybody here has a higher standard of living. 

So, they expect to be paid more. So, from your perspective, what do you think would be? It’s like an effective solution to deal with that.

Michael

You know, I think the first thing that comes down to is. Like the business model itself, right? Can you make it work? You know what I mean? Like. Yeah, we have become a society that would rather pay a dollar for a pair of socks than $10.00 for a. Pair of socks. 

Cosmos

It’s just the culture; it’s ingrained by years and years of individualistic, self-centered behavior.

Michael

Yeah. My wife said something really interesting once. She’s Polish, and she doesn’t think like an American at all. But she said to me, she’s like, you know, we’re really, we’re really lucky that because like we’re not, we’re not like, I’m not a rich person, you know, like, I’m not Uber wealthy. You know what I mean? But at the same time, I’m not Super poor, right? 

And she had said that it’s harder to be. It’s harder to be poor. And here’s a great example that she used because I asked her why. She’s like poor people buy stuff when they need it. And the example she used was a winter coat, right? So. Right now, we’re in the summertime, and if people are smart, they’re buying people, they’re buying stuff off the liquidation racks from the winter, you know, that’s what we do. Right.

So, it’s like we have money, and I have the sense to think ahead knowing that, you know what, the coat I used last winter is on his last leg, and I will need a new coat next winter, right? But I have enough disposable income to say, I’m going to buy this winter coat now; you know, I’m going to let it sit in my closet. Yeah. 

And I will probably pay 70% less for that winter coat because it’s being liquidated, right? It’s something the stores couldn’t sell. So instead of it being $200.00, it’s. 50. You know and, but some people, poor people, you know, or lower middle class, whatever you want to call it. Right, 

they’ll say you know what, it’s winter now, and I’m cold, need a new jacket, and want to look cool this winter. I’m going to buy one. Winter coat, 2024. That’s $250 just came out. Hot off the rack. You know what I mean? And it’s like it’s. That kind of thinking kind of locked people into it. The lives they’ve made for themselves. You know? 

And so yeah, I think plenty of people have an amazing life making $20,000 a year. They’ve figured it out, and they don’t need a Mercedes. They don’t need the newest car like I read in this book. Like the millionaire next door, everybody should read something along the lines. He talked there about interviewing the book, and he talked about being a millionaire, right? That was the point of the book. He’s a millionaire, and every year, he gets a car. He always buys a car. That was a company lease that was three years old. 

And so, it’s basically. Maximum. Depreciation. It was a company car, so someone probably didn’t beat the **** out of it. And so, you have that initial seed money to buy this three-year-old car that’s lightly used, right? Probably had a lot of Hwy. Miles on it cause it. Was. A company car, and then every three years, he does it again. 

So, if you do the math, you might spend 120 $150.00. A. Month to always have a car between three and six years old that never like a car. That’s three to six years old now does not have. Problems with the battery, problems with the water pump, problems with power steering, problems with, you know, suspension and leakage linkages, and everything you get with a 20-plus-year-old car, and I thought that was so Smart. 

That’s what we did, you know, so once. I read that was the first thing we did with the money when my wife and I got married; we bought a car that was an old lease. That was three years old, and it’s a great car. So, and it’s paid off like we paid cash for it. And then in three. And. Then, in three years, we’re coming up with it, and we will. Get another car that’s three years old, you know, like we’ll never have a brand-new car. For what?

Cosmos

No, I mean, ultimately, what you’re saying, Michael, is that your mindset is everything. From the mindset stems whether you’re going to be abundant or you’re going to have scarcity. It’s all about how you think and how you do things. Ultimately, culture is about a collection of mindsets, and that’s how.

Two changes occur, right? But Michael, on a different note, since time is coming short, I wanted to ask you about your company. Can you tell me the audience a little bit more about Natural Materials Unlimited, the premise of what it does, and what It’s about?

Michael

Yeah. We first started the company to make this product called Hempwick. It is a waxed yarn that people use to light pipes, cigarettes, fires, and whatever. That’s a whole other story. But what had happened was that we started making hemp quick for other brands, right? So, white labeling, private label manufacturing, contract manufacturing, whatever you want to call it, like most brands? They don’t make their own thing. They outsource the manufacturing and so on.

So, companies outsource to me. What happened was that I started asking the companies I was selling to, “What other things are you looking for? “What do you need? What could you do? What could? How could I service you more? You know? “They asked me a simple question. Could you make a dog collar from hemp? And I was like, “You know I. “Don’t. I know, but sure. Let’s find out. You know? 

And so, then I used my creative problem-solving abilities. You start scouring the Internet looking for the terminology, you know, like. Nobody knows the dog. I mean, not nobody. But unless you use inside language, like the length of a dog leash made from webbing, WEBBING is the industry term for this woven belt or a fabric tape. Whatever you want to call it. But it’s webbing. And so it’s like, OK, well, alright. Can we find a natural weapon? Can we find organic cotton, hemp, linen, or whatever webbing? And it’s like, OK, yeah, the answer is yes. 

And then, all of a sudden, we started turning like this. Sustainable Product Development Company, where companies would come to us with an idea or product, and we would walk them through it. The available materials or the limitations of materials, and we would explain to you when to use plastic, when to use metal, when to use leather, when to use fake leather, when to use linen, or when to use recycled cotton. And we specialize in not doing anything from synthetics like none of our products. Make microplastics. And then we export all over the world. 

And so, we’re always looking for, you know, small and medium enterprises. To. To start a project with us, we can, you know, help them procure sustainable materials, or we can produce things for them. So much of the stuff we do is leather or fake leather-based, uh, paper or textile-based, and by textiles, I mean anything that you can think of with these fabric tapes, yarn, rope, or textiles. We do it like we don’t make shoes. We don’t. We don’t do crazy complicated things. But do you know a guy who makes shoes if somebody needs shoes? Yeah, I know someone who does everything in Poland, so it’s nice.

Cosmos

That is awesome. Michael and Michael, are there any other products you’re producing that you want the audience to see?

Michael

Yeah, right now. We’re working on vertical integration, acquiring land, and trying to integrate vertically. Fiber production from industrial hemp uses these fibers to make yarns for textile use and pulp for paper and packaging. I believe that. Like actually, everything that we do is based on cellulose. 

So cellulose, like cotton, is like 99% cellulose. Hemp fibers or cellulose paper is cellulose. So, we don’t think about it a lot, but it’s like you can either grow materials to make stuff, or you can mine and refine materials to make stuff. Or you can, you know, pull it as a crude oil out of the ground and make something from that, too. 

I prefer that my materials be grown on the planet, which always means that they’re cellulose-based. So, that’s what I’m leaning on. Cellulose. Sustainable cellulose. That’s the plan.

Cosmos

So, Michael, how can our audience connect with you and learn more about you, your work, and everything you do?

Michael

If you would like, I encourage people to contact me directly, as I do on my website. Myname.com michaelklepht.com. We also have natural materials from the EU. I usually give out my phone number if people are interested in it, as I am. If people watch this recording, you’ll see it in my Zoom. Can you Please message me on WhatsApp? I’m always open to talking to curious people. People who want to mentor interested people, not partnership people, are those who are interested in manufacturing. Stuff. I always have time to talk to people.

Cosmos

Michael, that is great because, you know, we need more pioneers like yourself who are into sustainable entrepreneurship. I am pretty sure this is the future, like in the 21st century, and this will be the future of entrepreneurship. It is the only way if we want to have like we want to have like a planet that we can live on. I also live a bonded lifestyle, and I’m really glad that you are doing this because you know somebody is looking at this who will probably be inspired by what you’re doing, and they’ll want to take that step as well. And I hope you take the time to return to this show later. You know.

Michael

Anytime. Anytime. Yeah. I just. I encourage people to look up, you know, sit. Look up 6 Sigma look up—triple bottom line. You are thinking and stuff like that. Many really good things are happening regarding sustainability and proper resource management. Is it Interesting? You know that even if you’re not really into it, you could use it to make yourself more useful in your career. 

You could use it to make your company more profitable. You know, we could do many things, and I appreciate you inviting me to talk with you, and I’m always happy to come back. So, thanks for having me.

Cosmos

Thank you, Michael. I want to conclude this episode by letting my fellow Extraordinary Americans know that, hey, look, there’s an extraordinary within every one of us, and we must awaken it and unleash it until next time. Bye for now.