Welcome back to the show my fellow extraordinary Americans Today we have a special guest called Ashley Johnson. Ashley is an award-winning collaborator, sought-after educator, and CEO of Gartner and Grace LLC, a virtual around-the-clock shop providing spiritual transformation services to the masses.

She spent 10 years as a spiritual development and religious education teacher and 10 years in corporate America. She’s credentialed through the Unitarian Universalist Association as a religious educator, and adjunct faculty at Iliff Seminary, and trained in spiritual transformation in children and youth by Reverend Dr. Leanne Hadley. She’s one of the few people who understands the intersection and balance required between spirituality and business. And that is one of the Main reasons I have her on the show. Ashley, Are you there?

Hello, cosmos. Yes, I am here.

I’m really glad you took the time to do this show with me. I said I wanted to touch on a certain team regarding, as you know, the balance between the spiritual and material worlds, but before I asked about that, Ashley, I wanted to know … So, I know you are an entrepreneur and CEO, and you have been in corporate America. Can you tell me? In front of the audience, tell a little bit more about your background and how you got started.

Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for having me here, Cosmos. It’s so nice to talk to you. So, my journey started in college, when I was studying psychology. I got some great advice to study what I love, and psychology was what I loved and what made people tick, Close to the end of my time there, I started thinking, oh my gosh, What am I going to do for work?

So, I’m going to make ends meet. How am I going to get out there? And, you know, did I do all the adulting things that I needed to do? And that’s when I took a course in advertising, and that’s when I started to see this connection between the human spirit, and from there, I sort of went down this windy path of really getting my foot in the business world. But my heart and my soul were always just as they were. It was tugging at something else, and I was constantly looking for this intersection.

And so, I spent about five years in corporate America in telecom, and it was just numbers. It’s just money. It’s just, you know, driven to make money, which is not bad or wrong. But I felt that the part of me that was craving more was just not getting fed. And so there was this imbalance. Treaded on in corporate America and then just made a big pivot, made a pivot to do spiritual transformation work with children and youth, and went with my heart’s calling and my soul’s calling. And did that for 10 years.

And then the pendulum went up. A different way, where I was doing my heart’s work. But the money wasn’t there. So, I went back to corporate America. And again, there’s nothing wrong or bad with it. It was just this constant teeter-totter of, Do I follow my heart’s work, or do I follow where the money is? 

And so, I went back into corporate America. Was there about 5 years before just going full force on my own and bringing both of these worlds together: the spiritual peace and the business piece. And that’s when I found a Gardener of grace.

So, there are a lot of points to touch on over here because, first of all, normally a lot of people that go into the corporate world are doing it for the money, for the status, and for all that. But also, there are a lot of people in America, right? Now that I want Your team feels they’re calling; they want to go for the true calling with them. They usually don’t understand how to monetize that. How to do both. 

But here we are, where you had to go on the same journey and the same process. Can you tell me, during your journey throughout your life as you went through all of this, what the great motivating factor was that ultimately drove you? In both religion, education, and corporate America.

Yeah, great question. And I still agree with you, Cosmos. There are so many people out there who are in jobs for the dollars or for the status. And again, nothing wrong with any of that, but where I have such pain for people—me, you, your listeners—is when it’s their souls that are getting crunched, right? They appear to be present in this environment and at work. And you know, they’re making good money. Yet there’s still something missing, and that was my journey as well; there’s just something in my soul, in my heart. That was missing, and that’s what kept me going, Cosmos was this constant tug. You’re meant to do something more. You’re meant to do something else.

Yet I had to quiet down all the noise. But you should be. You should be. You should be making this much money at this age. You should be at this title, so for me, it was a lot of quieting that chatter and then turning up that light, inside… which all of us have your listeners, you, all of us, have this beautiful light inside. And that’s really what I Want to draw out of people?

So, a question: during your time, what is the biggest lesson you learned overall during your time in corporate America as you were going through these revelations, and how did you apply it when you’re transitioning to Starting your own business?

Yeah, such good questions. So, some of it’s practical, and some of it’s just heartfelt. So, one thing that I will say that’s heartfelt is to trust your gut. Trust your gut. I can tell you that we are in corporate America. We are so focused on the data and the numbers, and I love data, I love numbers, and I love analyzing, and where I saw the problem was just living from there. But what do the numbers tell us? And what if we do something wrong? And how many people did I feel would just benefit from it? Trust your gut, right? 

You’ve been doing this job for 10/15 years. Why does your Business sense, I think? And right now, there are studies and research out there showing that we don’t make great decisions if we just trust our guts. And I think that’s bonkers. People need to trust their guts completely. There’s more out there in terms of intelligence and knowledge than we’re willing to give it credit for. 

So that was one thing. I was trusting my gut, and the other thing is that you mentioned transitions. This is just really practical. Transitions are hard, so transitioning out of a corporate environment, if that’s what one’s, you know, the journey is, and that’s what I did twice, can be difficult. There’s safety there; there’s monetary safety there. There’s a familiarity there. 

So being cognizant of the transitions involves giving yourself grace, taking a lot of breaths, and being focused on just one step in front of the other. So, two things helped me: big lessons as I was circling in and out of corporate before landing on Gardner and Grace.

So, Ashley, you bring up a really important point: trusting your gut. 

However, society tells you the opposite of trusting God, a lot of times society’s advice is the opposite of trusting Gut. They tell you to get this good job and this good career, have the status, the titles, and everything. You’ve got to have the respect of everyone around you. 

And ultimately, a lot of times, this does not mean it might work for some, but for others. For a lot of people, it’s basically against their calling. They have something that they want to do and that they’re passionate about, but they’re stuck in this kind of solidified type of reality that is given by society, almost a matrix.  

so even though what you’re saying is true, you’ve got to trust your gut and go with what you’re calling it. And I completely agree because extraordinary America is ultimately about people finding their calling, monetizing their calling, and ultimately being financially free. But how do you exactly go from there? The environment is more powerful than us; just society has a really powerful influence on us. What would make us have that courage and that thing to go and trust our gut and go for our calling?

Yeah, I think we’re just not practiced at it. I think that we have a lot of intuitive sense within us, but we’re just not practiced at listening to that noise. What we’re practiced at is listening to what those voices are saying. You’re not good enough unless you do X, Y, and Z, right? You’re not good enough unless you climb the corporate ladder or do all of these things. I want to be very clear here that it’s not about me. Saying that anything, any choices in corporate America are bad choices. I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying that I think we’re not practicing trusting ourselves.

I think we’re not practicing coming back into the center and doing simple things to quiet our mind, and it can be something as secular as Just taking a walk or something as spiritual as going deep in meditation. If we can quiet our minds, that is one step in coming back into that inner knowing, and that’s where I get a lot of my guidance and intuition. 

But I can’t do it when I’m listening to a lot of the chatter. So, turning some of that chatter down is an important aspect, and it’s super practical. Just turn that noise down, right? We don’t need to listen to all those voices that are telling us these things. We don’t need to hear.

I mean, I think you have a point over there. Our minds are so restless, and our world has been designed in a way to keep our minds consistently wrestling. We’re living in this modern world, the 21st century, where you have Cell phones, TV, and radio… outside the bustling of cars and all that stuff. There’s always some activity going on, and our minds are always going here and there.

But back in the ancient times. It was much more rural—a rural kind of thing. These things just came naturally when we had more opportunities. Acquire our but in the modern world, it’s really difficult to do unless we make an active effort to do it.

And you named it the active effort. And I would challenge you to even come back in. The rural days Right? I mean, some things are out there making noise and taking our attention. And it’s a lifelong practice. I think human beings are Part of our being to have that heightened Awareness, right? That’s safety for us to, you know, know that something’s out there that may or may not be dangerous. And it’s our job to continue to quiet it down. You named it so well—that restlessness of the mind. Especially in our modern day with the buses and the cars and the dings and the cell phones and even something Just a super simple Cosmos—this is what I love about simplicity. You can turn your Cell phone off.

Right.  

You can put your cell phone there. Phone in a drawer. You can turn your ringers off, and that’s, you know, for busy moms. Oh, my gosh, no, I couldn’t possibly do that. And I’m not suggesting that that one little simple trick’s going to work for everyone; I’m saying we have a choice, right? Who else can you say, Hey?” If the kids are going to call or the school’s going to call you on point for an hour, I’m putting my phone in the drawer for an hour. It can be super simple to bring, as you say, that restless mind back to the center.

So ironically, one of the things that I realized is that in terms of, religion and spirituality, it tends to be more of an Eastern kind of thing; a lot of people in the West consider meditation and all this to be known as Eastern stuff. It’s not part of the thing. 

But, you know, among ancient people, a lot of them did benediction and prayer, and it was a part of it. But, from your point of view, how can you practically apply? I think in today’s world, they’re looking for practical applications. With this spirituality and these spiritual techniques, when it comes to making more money and being successful in their lives, how can they apply this in a practical way to their business and to their personal lives?

Yeah. So, the one thing I would suggest is that it has both spiritual and business implications, and I could quote a litany of spiritual teachers who say this and a Litany of business. People who say this are right. So how often would you get advice from the Dalai Lama and Warren Buffett in one piece? But here it is. 

Focus is what is necessary to quiet the mind to come back into the center, where our intuition, our knowing, and our guidance are, and focus is what is required to move any good business forward. And when you combine the two, truly, when you come back into that focus and center within, and from there, all my good decisions have been made from a business perspective; I’m calmer and less reactive. I’m more able to engage in a business conversation, so I think that dichotomy, as you point out, in Western culture is a false one, right? They don’t need to be separate. They’re the same.

Ironically, yeah. A lot of people that I’ve noticed tend to think that this is exclusive, that there’s a separation between spirituality and business, and I would like to go on a tangent here. 

They have a lot of negative views of you if you are religious or anything. That you’re not supposed to be doing business because there are a lot of negative thoughts and influences about money when it comes to spirituality. 

There’s a belief that you have to be poor. If you are to be truly spiritual, but it’s not really, these are all negative things that are put out by preachers that don’t know what they’re talking about. Ultimately, in today’s world, it has to be a practical balance of both: you’re supposed to use it to help other people, and how you use money ultimately determines your destiny, right? 

But a lot of people have. Have a negative view of spirituality and religion. And when it comes to the application of attainment, money, and business, I don’t know, from your perspective, what are your thoughts on these misconceptions that they have.

Yeah, I agree with you on that. I think there are people out there who have this negative attitude about money and how it is antithetical to being spiritual. And you know, I’ve struggled with that. I struggled with that right when I was first starting with Gardner and Grace. I remember liking Just thinking that, but the divine within is free.

How could I possibly charge for anything that had to do with anything spiritual?  This is a gift that we have as humans. I can’t charge. And I had to work through a lot of what you’re saying. It’s about what I do with that money. It’s about how I use my good in this world, which could include finances. 

It is also about this Quick story: When I was working at a nonprofit, someone was struggling. They were fighting at a concert. It was a music concert, and I’ve got to give it away for free. This is the people’s music, and year after year, when they gave it away for free, they saw people come or sign up but not come. And then I’m just going to charge a dollar. I’m just going to charge a dollar. And when they started charging for it, people followed through with their promise to come. In that story, what I find is that this person wasn’t in it to get the dollar, which would have been OK in and of itself, but he had been struggling with, I want people to get this music.

I want them to be moved by it, and for me, hearing that story and watching it unfold, I was, yeah, if it is. It is charged in dollars. to have someone follow through and get that transformative experience of the music. All for it. And that’s a lens that I also use in my business: Sometimes people need a coach, a guide, or a teacher, and they can pay for that. That’s OK. It’s still free. What’s inside them? The resource is still free. Sometimes it just takes a monetary exchange to sort of get past that and tap into it.

I think you do bring up a very important point about people valuing something in this story that you’re talking about. When the person charged a dollar or whatever, people started battling that, whereas whenever you give something for free, people don’t seem to value it on a subconscious level. 

And it’s very interesting. Psychology because some of the most precious things in the world tend to be free—you know, the love that you have in your family—a mother’s or a father’s love. But in human psychology, it has been designed in such a way that, out of its evolutionary biology, or of its divine nature, or whatever it is, people don’t value things that are given for free. It’s ridiculous.  

Yes, exactly. We’ve been joking in my household including my husband’s dad, who has since passed away. He would say, I’ve got advice. It’s free and therefore worthless. And you’re. That’s related to what you’re saying. And it is, it’s just kind of funny psychology of, well, if there’s no monetary value assigned to it, then we’re not necessarily going to pay attention to it. It’s interesting.  

I don’t know if it’s just a Western culture thing or if it’s a universal thing, but yeah, that’s something that those people need to value something, but only when they invest in something. I think it’s called an investment principle when you make somebody invest something in yourself, your advice, or whatever. 

It is then they start listening because he puts effort into it, and it’s just an element of the human psyche. If the audience or listeners are listening, you might as well take advantage of that. You know because people don’t value that which is free. It’s ultimately sad; I don’t know if it’s a sad or a good revelation, but it’s just the way things are.

It’s an interesting one, for sure.

One of the questions I wanted to ask you was, What is the biggest challenge you had to experience during your journey from corporate America to starting your business to getting to do spiritual and religious education? And what did you do to overcome it?

Self-doubt Definitively, self-doubt is the biggest challenge that I have faced in terms of moving out of a corporate environment that was profitable in many ways and wondering, Can I do this? The charge for this. Can I make a living? Can I impact people? Well, so those voices of self-doubt were huge and a huge challenge, you know, because at the end of the day, Cosmos, I had confidence that I could work in the business world. I had confidence that I could lead children and youth. I had confidence in myself as an educator a spiritual Guide and a mentor.

And it was just going out on my own, which I had done at various times, and I had owned a couple of other businesses… But you know, I’m going out on my own, sort of for that last time, can I Do it? And I’ll just keep coming back to what solves that. It’s coming back within, and it’s trusting that voice within. And it’s quieting those noises and those voices. No, no, no. You should. You should. You should. 

And I think Parents as well, meaning as they are, can be some of the loudest voices because they’re concerned. Right. They’re. Oh my gosh. You can’t go do something. You can’t go be something; not all parents do that, for sure, but I think a parent can be a very loud voice in that. So even some of my family members who are just well-meaning just quieting that for me with a lot of love and a lot of grace, came back into what I knew was Right.

And so, it doesn’t sound so impractical. I will share this with your listeners. Simple things like meditation, which I do daily, help to calm my mind. It’s something that brings me back to that knowing, but meditation doesn’t have to follow necessarily some specific way or some specific path. And I know that for a lot of people, meditation can be overly activating, right? It’s just too much to hear.

So, you know, if meditation isn’t something that your listeners want to do, I would say just get out and walk and count your steps. Right. Or just repeat counting 8 steps at a time if they’re, you know, able and able to walk or count one’s breath; they’re really simple things we can do, and that focus and coming back into the center are things I’ll keep coming back to. It is really what helped me get over one of those big hurdles.

There’s something that I have to say about mine. So, when you’re talking about going within to get rid of self-doubt, I consider myself, I wouldn’t say, a religious person, but more of a spiritual person. I think religious dogma prevents you from actually becoming one with God. I mean, it’s a controversial opinion, but I stand by it because it’s all about dogma and Mental theories versus the true path of all religions ultimately being to experience God in practicality, and so going within, doing yoga, and meditation, for me, is getting myself down a lot of times because I have faith in God. God, I know that ultimately the universe of the higher power will make things OK, right? 

And for people who have self-doubt, either you believe in yourself if you’re an atheist or an agnostic, but if you are, if you believe in a higher power, that’s a bonus because You have a lot of faith in fate. To me, this means getting rid of self-doubt because when you have faith in the higher power, you have trust, and you have a loving relationship with that entity, then it makes things much easier. Go through life. Because you know deep down that you’re not alone.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. 1000 times yes. And I am so glad that you brought up Cosmos that idea of religiosity and how religion can sometimes pull us from that divine core inside. And I so want to say to your listeners that it is not for me either about religiosity or if you have it, that’s great. It is not needed, and sometimes for people, that religious dogma and what I sometimes refer to as human hands.  Man’s hands—that’s man’s hands. Some of that religious dogma is not necessarily a spiritual truth or a spiritual knowing. So sometimes that religiosity can have a counter-effect, where instead of bringing someone closer to that divine within, it pulls them away and out of it, and it can be as far along the spectrum as trauma and abuse.

And so, bringing it back into that or whether it’s religiosity or spirituality, that’s where it’s at. That’s where it is. That’s where you know you’re not alone. And that’s where that self-doubt is. Oh, I don’t. I don’t need to listen to that. I know I am not alone. You named it so well.

No, I mean, I know, and it’s ultimately ironic because it’s this dog that takes you away. But when it comes to practical applications in our lives and terms of business, we need practical spirituality because, when it comes to that, it’s not only about financial education. It’s about how to respond to the world.

And a lot of times when you’re in business or trying to make a business, you’re going to go through a lot of stress. But as you mentioned, if you have faith in a higher power within you and then use that to get out of your doubt, you go with it and listen to it too. And it happens a lot of times that you’ll get your answers from deep within, and then your business will succeed.

And so, one of the examples I can give, at least in my case, is: Is this podcast itself a lot of people’s favorites? When I decided to leave Texas and come over here to get help with starting the podcast, my friends doubted me.

He said that this was not going to work right away, and then basically only in that it was a big life decision, going on a road trip from Texas to Florida, and it was a life-changing decision. But a lot of the time, during my time over there, I had faith in the higher power, I needed that ultimately it was going to be OK, and that’s what allowed me to take the risk even when all of my friends and all of the people Told me, what are you doing? This is crazy. You have a life over here. You have your friends. You have an entire thing built over here!

And then I was like, no, I have faith in the higher power, and I’m going to go through with it. And it turned out to be OK. I did. Mash and you create a podcast. And now it’s doing pretty well. But if I do not have faith and a practical spirituality of meditating, going within, and knowing in my core, it’s going to be all right. Wouldn’t have happened, you know.

Absolutely. I love that story. 

For me, oftentimes it shows up as just a small, quiet voice right where it says go this path or do this, and just having faith in that cosmos is like having a beautiful story of quieting down the noise of your friends who are saying, Dude, this is not going to work. Don’t do this. Don’t do this. 

And you know, I think a lot of times that’s more about fear on behalf of someone else. Or they really want your best interest in mind, and this is a path they don’t understand, and they’re just trying to help in their ways. And I try not to give that too much thought and just, you know, wish them well and just turn it down. You’re saying, turn that noise down. A case in point is that you are here doing the podcast, which is a great example of listening to what is within and moving forward from that to your business.

I mean one of the reasons I just brought it up. This is because a lot of people want to start a business that they want to be successful in, but usually, they end up listening to their peers, their family, and their friends—people that they think they can trust and they give them this self-doubt, and then they basically discourage them, and there could have been so many more businesses out there. 

There could have been so many more people who could have succeeded had they had the right environment for support, and that’s something that I’m very sensitive about because encouragement is like water. 

I know how many you’ve got to water it, and you’ve got to encourage it. If you want your plant to succeed in your business, you know you have to consistently water it. If it’s not to yourself, then there’s going to be an environment that encourages it, does that, and so if you’re in the wrong environment, it’s you. It’s growing weeds all together. The soil is going to deteriorate.

Absolutely. And I think there’s just a nugget in What you said there. I think sometimes when people say, don’t go do this, they’re talking about how many businesses could have been out there doing wonderful things. I feel when, and This is unfortunate when we see people succeed. Sometimes it makes us look at ourselves and do well. What am I doing? What am I doing with my life? Why am I still in this job when, as you know, so and so just left the job and did something amazing? What am I doing? 

It forces the person to take a look at them, and I think that can be uncomfortable for people. And so, my advice to that is, just keep your light shining. Just keep your light shining; we don’t have to dim the light. You don’t have listeners; you don’t have to dim your light. Do not dim your light. The light keeps turning up. The world needs to have that voice that your listeners out there have—that the gifts they have and the businesses that they have to keep turning it up. Keep turning that light up.

No, totally. But, on a different note, I wanted to ask you this, so you know, about the Americans. It’s about the pursuit of happiness, right? And you and I both know that spirituality and going within yourself are foundational course, that leads to the ultimate, long-term but a lot of people in America don’t know that they believe that having cars, having a plane, or living the billionaire lifestyle would make them happy. 

So, from your perspective, how do you see this entire thing from your perspective of what it takes to make me happy? This is the American perspective that is now out there.

So, when I first started on a spiritual journey and meditating, I realized this pretty quickly. Well, I got Words pretty quickly for an experience that I had been having, which is just what you’re naming. But I’m not happier in this position at my job. But I’m not happier when I’m making more money, and I’m not happier when I just signed the You know, I bought my first house when I was 21, right?

But I’m not happier. And I knew that. 

And when I Went on a spiritual journey, I discovered pretty quickly that it wasn’t about happiness. It was about joy. And what happened was coming back into that, what I call that divine light inside that original goodness inside. That’s where the joy was. And I could be sobbing on my knees through a really hard time and yet still feel that interconnectedness, that joy, and I mean, it can’t be extinguished. It’s there forever. And so, in the happiness piece, I often think of those material things. Right, well, I’ll be happy when I’m happy.

And here’s the sad truth of it all: Y’all are aware that that line keeps moving, right? Well, sure. You’ll be happy when you get the Ferrari. Right now, you need two, or you need a house that has twice as many. Garages for your Ferrari or whatever it is, whatever material thing, and I’m not knocking the material things at all. 

What I’m saying is that when we start to chase something so ephemeral as happiness, it will keep escaping us, and we will keep needing more. I have this joke with a friend of mine who, you know, did well in the tech industry. And I was like, when is it not enough? Dude, when is enough enough? He’s well. When I have my jet.

And I’m like, oh, OK, but when, which is fine, yet he kept chasing it, and it never was going to be enough, is my point. What is enough is those resources inside; what is enough is that divine light inside; what is enough is you and the voice that you have and the mark that you’re meant to leave in this world, that is enough. That’s where the joy is, and that can never cease.

It reminds you of this movie, I think, the 1987 movie Wall Street, where the guy as the protagonist asks Gordon Gecko how much is enough. 

And yeah, I mean, it sounds kind of cliche, but ultimately, a lot of people, including me, are chasing something impermanent. And they’re not going to find lasting Happiness in it, but actually, a continuation of this is what it is when it comes to the American dream. A Lot of people In America know that when they believe that they have attained the American dream, they will be happy. But from a spiritual standpoint, from a practical application of spirituality, how do you see the American Dream, and how should Americans go about attaining happiness when it comes to pursuing the American Dream?

Happiness is here in the moment, as cliche as that may sound. That is where it is. It’s not something to chase. It’s not something to attain. It’s something we have. And what’s necessary is to quiet down the noise by taking the divisiveness, the anger, the vitriol—we need to just ratchet that down and abolish it altogether. Happiness is here and now. And that is enjoyable when it comes to the privileges that people have, especially in America. 

And that’s not true for everyone in America, by all means.

But when it comes to people with privilege, that means taking a good, hard look at what you are doing. With your hands, in terms of the work that you’re doing, what you’re doing with your money, and what you’re chasing, is it in the service of good? Is it in the service of getting your voice out there? Is it in the service of interconnectedness and tapping into that goodness inside and tapping into somebody else’s? Goodness, right, that connection there. Or is it just chasing to chase? I mean, these are important questions to ask in terms of the pursuit of happiness or the pursuit of the American dream. Are we pursuing joy? Are you pursuing joy in every moment? And from there, I think we start to loosen our grip on some of those things that we thought were so important to us. It just becomes a little looser, and we can navigate in much more freeways.

So actually, there’s a saying in the eastern world, in terms of spirituality, that unfulfilled desire is the root cause of slavery. And then, basically, we’re talking about having happiness with it, but a lot of people find themselves unhappy; they don’t find happiness because they’re unfulfilled desire and their frustrated desire… What they want to attain, in terms of the American dream, is to be car owners and to have the ideal lifestyle. If only I had this. 

I know what you’re saying is true, but it sounds like most people consider it only theoretical because how do you practically let go? You have to transcend the desire, or you’ve got to fulfill it, right?

So, from your perspective, how would you go about transcending these, let’s say, for somebody who’s never had a Ferrari and believes that having that Ferrari will give him happiness, and then, ultimately, when he finally gets it, it’ll last for 30 seconds, but I don’t know that, so I don’t know. What’s your perspective on that?

Try it.  

Go for the Ferrari Go for it! Because it’s going to come to an experience where you realize, Oh gosh, or something else. Oh gosh, or something else. And there is nothing wrong with having a Ferrari. There isn’t what we’re talking about here, which is that unmet desire I keep wanting. I keep wanting And I’m a believer; that’s that the still voice inside of us, pulling us back in to say what you need is in here, right? And that’s assuming some basic needs are met, right? We all need food and shelter. So, when our basic needs are met, we should be able to come back to those practices that just steal us. And then, from there, we truly are free because we can make choices.

So, if my choice is to go buy that damn Ferrari because I wanted it, but if I’m buying that Ferrari because I want it, I just need it. I need something else. I need something else because that thirst is never going to be quenched, so my advice is to go try it. Go try it. If you’re out there and you want that car, go for it. How do you feel afterward? Do you feel, hey, that was something cool, and I did want it, and I’m proud of that? And I had fun with it. Awesome!

Or is it that was nice, but now I still need more? I think that’s an invitation into, well, maybe that’s more about coming back into what’s within to see if we can find that freedom that resides right there inside.

I believe that, in the end, all of life is an experiential education type of thing. It’s about finding limitless happiness. You want to find true joy and happiness. And it ultimately comes and then comes the divine. You go with it, you do the yoga meditation practice, and you finally become one with the divine consciousness. But in the process, in the journey, you have to go and try to find Happiness through power status, the toys, the Jets, and the cars, and ultimately, you realize that no, this is too limited and temporary. 

Right, this is too limited, and Terrell, this only gave me what happened, is what I mean, and then ultimately, let’s say there is something such as a long-lasting relationship after death. We have to let that go. So ultimately, yes, it’s a journey towards self-realization. But this is a necessary part of the experience.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And that, you know, is for listeners who are thinking, oh, you know, maybe that meditation thing is too much, or I think I’ve heard of a tantrum, but I don’t know what that is. Is it? It doesn’t have to be… Practices do not have to be complex; they can be super, super simple, and experiencing the world out there is how we do it, right? 

Going off to some rural place, closing the door, and not interacting with people. Or the noises or the things that come into our lives are not the way to go. Through that journey inside, it’s in that connectivity, in that experience, and in the doing, and it can be super, super, super simple; the freedom really can be easy.

I mean, ultimately, I feel the reason I’m going to talk about it is because America’s identity is ultimately about freedom, right? But we are enslaved by our desires for the material realm, and it’s that slavery that we’re attached to. If we can somehow transcend that attachment, we’ll be freer, and ironically, that will make us happier. But it’s a paradox. 

The kind of analogy that comes to mind is that of a spider with a spider web. If our desire for the material world, with all the toys, is us being an insect that’s getting trapped in the spider web, then we’re the spider that’s now consuming us, and it is our mind.

And its restlessness. And it’s our need to fulfill those desires that are entrapping us in this cycle of frustration and anger. And just because it’s an unsatiated desire, ultimately Spiritual practices will help us get out of that spider web because it’s through non-attachment. 

You want to go after the desired fiber that is not attached. Ultimately, it leads to a greater sense of freedom, and that freedom, ironically, will make you happier over the long term. But that’s just my two cents.

I wholeheartedly agree, and I would even add at the end that freedom actually might make You money as well. That’s OK. and that. You were right. So true about the freedom aspect. You know, there are times in my life where I have been just on the other end of the spectrum. Dealing with depression and anxiety is just crumpling with that. 

And to be able to speak from a place of such freedom when I can come back into that center, into that divine within, into that calm within. It’s a freedom unlike any other. There’s no choice other than it is the most amazing experience, and that’s why I love that connection to you and your listeners around that American dream around freedom because it is there. And I would add, bringing it back to the spirits, to the business piece, that it comes from that freedom and monetary gains can be had as well.

Or totally; Ashley couldn’t agree more. 

So, Ashley, I wanted to ask you about Gardner and Grace. I wanted to know the premise of how you started it, the background, and what led you there. Starting this thing, and you could tell me and the audience a little bit more about it?

{43:32} Starting Gardner and Grace

Yeah, absolutely. So, Gardner and Grace were stirring inside of me. I was still at Corporate America for the second time when I started Gardner Grace, and it was just you are getting out there and saying cosmic stuff. I’m just going to start this podcast. This was me again. Just going. I just knew this was the right thing to do. And I didn’t know exactly what was going to come of it. I knew that I wanted a connection between them. Virtuality and business, and the business in and of itself, the business part and the spiritual part are called Gardner and Grace a learning hub for the soul

And so, I have taught for 20 years everything from meditation to sexuality, education, spirituality, sexuality, tantrum walks, Mantram writing, and religious education. I have taught it all, and I knew I did not want to be the only one teaching. And for one reason, I couldn’t get to everybody. I couldn’t just be one teacher, and I couldn’t get to everybody who needed some. Some are just cultivating their soul work, and I knew I was only one voice.

And so, Gardner Grace was founded on the idea that we have this divine light within, but we often hide it. There’s all this that’s on top of it—something someone said, messages that we’ve gotten, or aggressions that we’ve had—and we just have this on top of us. Gardner and Grace were founded on these ideas. Underneath that, there is a divine light, so bright and powerful that it can’t ever be extinguished.

So, there are two ways that Gardner and Grace can help deal with that. One is turning up that light by teaching things like meditation, mantra writing, and programs that just help us come back into the center. And shutting down and knocking off some of that’s been put on top of us, and so some of the work that we’re doing right now is around sexuality. And the messages that people have received their whole lives. That just adds to all this garbage on top.

And so, Gardener and Grace serve to turn up that light and drop what I call a lot of shame. It’s just dropping a lot of that shame. On top, we can come back in, so we are a learning hub for the souls I have brought in and will continue to bring in. And write our curriculum to help turn up that light and to help drop that shame and that garbage that we just put on top of our light. So that’s how it came to be, and that’s how UM is moving forward with the business model and getting out there and helping people. Just feel freer. Just feel freer. Instead of being all tangled up and worried, it’s just to help them feel freer.

That is awesome, Ashley. Well, everybody needs more freedom in their lives, you know? So that’s pretty good, what’re you doing? And is there any other project that you’re working on right now other than this that you’d want the audience to see? To get a glimpse into.

I would love for them to head on over to Ashley Johnson, 5280. That’s Ashley Johnson, 5280. The 5280 is a Mile High. That’s where I’m headquartered in Denver, Colorado. So, Ashley Johnson 5280 is where I am Currently, I am housing all of my resources. 

I am looking to launch a course. I’m looking at the calendar here for six days in six days. I’m launching a course on spirituality and sexuality for you, and it’s well-designed to help people. We’ll understand some of the messages that they’ve gotten around sexuality and gender, and maybe you haven’t been super helpful for them, especially around parenting and how parents can engage in those conversations. They are the primary educators of their children and help them engage in conversations that are just really free to keep using that word. To reduce some of that stress and anxiety. So that’s one of the projects that I’m working on now, and I’d love for people to head on over and also join my e-mail list.

Awesome, Ashley. So other than your website, how can our audience connect with you to get to know more about you and reach out to you if necessary?

Yep, that and the website are the absolute best ways to do it. I have a little daily dose. I don’t know why I call it that. I think it’s cute. It’s a weekly e-mail, but just click on that daily dose and put your e-mail in there, and that’s a great way to stay connected with me. I communicate via e-mail with my community all the time. In my weekly emails, I’m giving hope and inspiration and inviting people to respond, and they do, and I love it, so that’s a great way to reach out and get in touch with me just through the site.

That’s awesome, and I would like to let you know that it is. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this podcast with me. I’m grateful for all the wisdom and knowledge that you have to share, and I would want you to come back at a later time.

I would love to come back, Cosmos, and thank you and your listeners. I appreciate all the work that you’re doing, getting the word out about being an extraordinary American and that freedom and helping your listeners. So, thank you.

Thank you. So, thank you so much. Ashley and I want to conclude this show by letting my fellow extraordinary Americans know that look, there’s an Extraordinary within every one of us that must awaken. It and unleash. Until next time, bye for now.