Welcome back to the show, my fellow extraordinary Americans. For today’s guests, we have Brandon Mehrgut. Brandon is the founder of Modern Mindfulness, which is a mindfulness training and consulting organization with over 1000 active members alone in Austin, TX. He’s a certified corporate-based mindfulness trainer. Has experience in Coaching a wide range of clients Ranging from the US government, the New Orleans FBI, and companies such as Volkswagen, Chevron, Disney, Lego, Alibaba, and others. 

Before this, he had founded the China Trainer’s community, China’s largest community of English-speaking corporate trainers for Fortune 500 companies. Brandon believes that meditation combined with the right mindset is the key to creating a better world, and his insights on the subject are one of the main reasons why I have him on this show. I’m excited to have him over here. 

Brandon, are you there?

What’s going on?

Hey Brandon, I’m really excited and glad to have you on this show. It’s an honor.

Happy to be here.

So, Brandon, I know that you’re an entrepreneur and like you’re into meditation and all of that. Can you tell me and the audience a little bit more about yourself, your background, and how you got started?

Yeah, sure I would Say my journey began when I was 19 and I lost a bunch of. Weight and then I. Wanted to really improve my psychological self, my spiritual self. It was just like drinking water. Powerhouse like. Where the hell do you begin? You want to be a better human being. You know, it’s like, impossible To find a starting point, 

I was gravitating towards a simplistic method. And to watch the mind made a lot of sense to me. They started getting into meditation and knew that I wanted to help a lot of people. Wasn’t sure what I wanted. I was very inspired by the before our work week and decided I wanted to have an organization based on sharing information. 

And I started a blog called Mind Management and went over psychology, sociology, meditation, social dynamics, philosophy. Growing up in South Louisiana, there was an urge inside of me to eject from that culture, I love Louisiana. Don’t get Me wrong, but I had to Eject my father from Cuba. I wanted him. He came here when he was 12 to America, and I wanted to go to another land and make something of myself. 

So, I went to China. Totally in the east alone. Didn’t know anybody and then moved to the Himalayan mountains. Been about five years there. That’s where I met my wife and that’s where I really started to fall in love with meditation.

Well, let me get this straight.

You went to the Himalayan mountains, and you met your wife over there. That’s like the ultimate, like romantic, like spirituality and romance, like, combined together. But yeah, go ahead.

It was. It really was. She was traveling through the desert at the time, and then she made her way to the mountains. She was in the group of people and yeah, so we met. We’ve been together ever since. And then I felt comfortable living in the mountains and had everything I needed. Ask me where’s the fear? What would make you feel very uncomfortable? The idea of moving to a city of 25 million people scares the **** out of me. I’m from a small town. It’s 6000 people, South Louisiana, they said OK after Shanghai. 

Within a month of Maine moving to Shanghai, I started to go to networking events. And people started to ask me to teach them meditation. Wow, this is amazing. I had no intention to teach meditation, but meditation was one component of the website that I had. People were really interested in that, so I started to teach about 1000 people a year for free. Then I created an organization called Shanghai Mindfulness, the simplest name. Got a job in corporate mindfulness. Trainer because I. Wanted a mentorship. And I did that for about four years. An organization called a potential project. Great, great people work with Alibaba, Chevron, Lego, and Disney, work with the FBI in the US, and from there ask the same question. I was very, very well known in Shanghai. And I asked myself the question. Where is the fear? Well, what I hate doing the most. Going home. 

So, after 10 years, a decade of being in China, and going back to the USA and I came to Austin, TX, and I started to then relook at my life and see that there was a great need to help fellow mindfulness teachers help fellow meditation teachers. They don’t understand leadership. They didn’t understand social entrepreneurship; for the past three years, they’ve been training them in these skills to bring meditation to 10% of the world because we have teachers. 

But the education lies in their ability to share their teachings. So that’s where I’m today and I’m super passionate. About allowing other people or inviting other people To watch their minds. Through meditation, through mindfulness. As a species, we need to stop once a day. 15 minutes. Cultivate selfless silence. Watch the mind and that’s what I’m all about. The great foundation. Becoming a better human being, in my view.

Brandon, I couldn’t agree with you more I think you are literally like what you did when coming to the Western or like coming to Austin, TX in a way you’re actually helping because there’s like a saying, you know like the eastern world is mainly like it tends to be the spirit, more spiritual and everything in the western world tends to be more materialistic. 

But over here you’re an entrepreneur. But you’re also into meditation, and you’ve found a way to combine both of them together, which it was not done until, like recent history, like for most of, like human history. Like it’s like spirituality, like it was supposedly isolated. Like it was its own thing then, entrepreneurship and making money. It’s like its own thing, but then it was never integrated before. So, I don’t know. Like what’s your opinion and perspective about the Venn diagram of combining entrepreneurship with spirituality and all of that?

It’s very dangerous. It’s very dangerous and it often equates to a bunch of charlatans running around trying to sell spirituality to Convince somebody of a better life and make a lot of money in the process. So, I think that the vast majority of people who teach meditation are not ready to teach meditation. I’m one of them. But at least I own it. And I’m stubborn enough to know. And that’s my Zen teacher. Tell me all the time.

I mean, that’s really humble of you to like, say that, you know, because like, you’ve all you’ve like, taught, like a lot of people and obviously You’re pretty qualified, you know, so.

It’s a matter of perspective. So you know, I’ve been training in meditation for 15 years and it really it’s a matter of perspective expectations. I think that it’s dangerous business itself because the first, and most important task is to cultivate integrity. And have a view of helping humanity and not an agenda, but an intention to serve. 

And when one is making 100 or thousands, if millions of dollars, it does make things very tricky. But at the end of the day, not even Jesus could please everybody. No matter what you do, you’re going to **** somebody. Off somewhere and I think that. It’s complicated, but it’s the same way. It’s a good time. It’s a good sign that spirituality and these philosophies are now becoming so popularized that Westerners like me, have gone to the East, gone to the West. Starting to promote this and share those in a more modern way, but it still can be very tricky. Businesses are one of the main things that we train teachers in because they care. And they may spiritually bypass and say, oh, I’m spiritual. So I don’t want to make a bunch of money. Or I don’t want to charge for my teachings. They’re so sacred. But at the same time, they’re not able to share what they love and alleviate more suffering in the world while simultaneously making the right ethical livelihood. 

So that really is that you hit the nail on the head because that’s the forefront of some of the problems that we’re trying to solve for these teachers when we’re training them and helping them.

So it’s really interesting. Point Brandon. Cause like normally like if you go to like I’m from India and in India basically like they take meditation and spirituality pretty seriously. But they did it in a way where they did not care about the like. The monetary and material well-being of the people. If you look at going to India, there are hundreds of millions of people, like below the poverty line, you know, and like, obviously you have to have some sense of financial freedom. But you look at them, you go to the West, right? And you go to like let’s say, Europe and America until like the 1960s. You see that they were so busy creating them, like having success in the material world. On a mental level, they were depressed and unhappy because ultimately you need it. 

You need to have a sense that you need to have balance between the material and the spiritual world, and for some reason, the Eastern world doesn’t have that balance. The Western world has that balance, but one of those reasons I’m really excited about interviewing You is because You’ve somehow managed to create a balance between the two worlds to the Best of your Ability and it’s something that we need to have on a much wider scale because. That will truly change. Humanity, where we are, understands that we have to have some level of financial freedom, but also have a spiritual and ethical way of living at the same time.

Yeah, I think it’s worth noting that. A lot of places in the east. They value things that are free. And donation-based culture is still prominent in places like India, Thailand, and Taiwan. A lot of places in Southeast Asia. Here it’s not free, it’s not good. And that’s a cultural Western capitalist mindset that has been ingrained in people, and that is one of the reasons why the donation-based models sell them works. 

I’ll give you a quick example. At Shanghai, mindful of my former organization, we always would have the bread and butter of what we did once a month. We did one big free event in the community offline. Totally free with no agendas, not trying To sell them stuff. You’re getting a lot of value just once a month, not more than that, not less than that. And those events were totally free and because they were free, there was no money upfront that people would pay to enter into them. Well, what we found was in the east, People who said that they would go… let’s Say we have 50 Sign UPS for the once-a-month event. 50% would show up. Early free whenever asked for any Money ran the same model in the West. Guess what? The percentage of showing up was the totally free event in which 50 people find out how many people you think showed up.

Five, I suppose 5 to 10.

Is about 20 percent, 15 to 20%. The last one of the things we did to mitigate this problem was in both East and West. We started to have a deposit. So, if you were to come to the event. You have to put down 20 bucks. And when you show up, we’ll give it to you back. 

So, when people show up to our events in Austin texas, I’m handing out $20 bills left and right. Say, “Thank you so much for meditating. Thank you so much for meditating” and the reaction people get is priceless. They kind of like they have, like, a cultural thing. What is This I don’t understand. 

And it’s fantastic because what we’re balancing here is the perception of value. And opportunity cost. 

So, you’re putting a value on something and saying, hey, I don’t even need your money. I love you. Thank you for coming. Whereas it’s just free and there’s no opportunity cost, no skin in the game. People don’t follow through, so we’re always finding ways to balance that. To value something that’s invaluable.

So, Brian, you Bring up a very interesting point because technically it is a free event because you’re handing back the $20.00, but the very act of them getting that $20 as a deposit makes them value it. And such an interesting psychology that you discovered that in the, I mean, but is it just like a Western thing, or is it just like? It’s like a…

It was both, so we did that in Shanghai as well. That went in Shanghai. That took Show rates from 50% to 90%. Funny enough. America took show rates from 20%. And 90%. Now it’s good to note that Shanghai and modern China are very capitalistic, so you don’t see as prevalent donation-based culture as you would see more of that in India. But India also as you know is turning more into this hustle capitalistic culture, these Western values. Trying to get ingrained in there.

But still, it’s Perception of value and opportunity costs and balancing that. It’s often said that meditation and this liberation. That we’re seeking. It’s so close we can’t see it. It’s so great. We could never believe it. And it’s so beautiful that you Can never comprehend it. Because you’re treated that you have to get somewhere to attain something. 

One of the fundamental teachings of meditation is there’s nothing to attain. There’s nothing to realize. This is what you seek. You already are. And putting that mindset in the Western culture, where you’re inundated with advertisements and buying stuff, a lot of it you don’t need. Some of them are very useful. It’s the contrary. 

So from an entrepreneurial perspective and also a performance perspective, meditation turns innovation on its head. And it’s such a great way of coming up with innovation, innovative solutions, that’s not on the side of the majority because you’re doing the opposite that you’ve ever been taught. When you start to Watch the mind.

So, Brandon, I wanted to ask you a question connected to it. So most people, when they go about their day, have a very restless way of thinking, and they think in a negative mindset or negative loop where they’re looking at advertisements and like I would have to add like the news media and they get bombarded by the shock and awe of like just like shockingly negative stories and like their entire day in general, like they’re focusing on negative things they’re trying to solve problems through that thing, but… 

From your perspective, how does meditation lead to a calmer mindset altogether? And, you know, changes the way of thinking that benefits them in the long term in terms of perspective.

I think that there are two things. I’ll give your viewers two Fundamental teachings That I believe are useful. One is We have a lot less free will than we think we do. The sounds that you’re hearing right now are happening. To you, the breath. That you’re feeling right now is happening too. The slides that you’re seeing right now are happening to you. Indeed, the birth that occurred happened to you. You didn’t sign up. For this ****. You’re just like when you were three years old. You start to have some Independence and start to realize that you were actually an individual thing and start knocking things over. That’s when the idea of this individual came about.

And these thoughts They’re happening to us. We’re not choosing them. Have you ever gotten a stupid song stuck in your head? So, these desires Are happening to us. It’s picking and choosing. Is happening to us. And to all together know that it’s happening. It’s an occurrence. That allows us to step aside. And touch our true faith and experience our true nature when we can experience our true nature. It’s not all of this wanting, craving, desire, picking and choosing left or right, good, or bad. It’s the observer. True awareness. And when you tap into that or realize who you really are, what this really is? Then you start to realize that There’s no problem to solve. 

And one of the questions I often ask myself when the mind starts going on and on and on is what’s here now. When there’s no problem to solve. And not answering the question, but just taking a step back. Relaxing into your true nature. 

You start to realize A sense of liberation. A sense of freedom. Often people explain it as the first two days of summer when you were a child. Oh my God. I have two weeks off. Have a month Off I have no nothing to do. This is it. Perfect. Wonderful. Oh, gosh, what a relief. The first day of vacation. That’s what we’re really easing into When we’re cultivating a meditative mind for this awareness.

Well, so Brandon, you mentioned that we are not the thoughts, but we’re the awareness behind our thoughts and I completely agree. But I want the audience to know a little bit more about this. 

Because most people usually think that their identity and their thoughts are theirs. But what you’re telling them to tell them to take a step back and realize that you’re aware. Or the observer behind those thoughts. 

But then once you just identify with them, you realize that you’re not those thoughts, and you’re not that identity, and a lot of conflicts in the world happen because we are attached to our thoughts and our identities, even though they’re temporary. So could you tell me a little bit, can you elaborate? More about this concept so that the audience understands What we’re talking about here.

So there are two things here. It’s a great question. One is that everything is burning. Everything is non-permanent. What will the building Look like in 50 years from now? 100 years from now, 100 years with one person, one person ago, one person later. What’s the building? Going to look like this. What are you going to look like one person a hundred years later? Who’s going to remember you? What? What are you going to leave behind? 500 years later, 1000 years later, 2000 years later? 

So that is very important to understand impermanence. And to find ways to bring impermanence into yours. God forbid if I live forever. I would just be on the couch for eternity. The only thing that makes something cherishing is that it’s fleeting. There are only so many firsts in your life that are going to happen, and that’s what makes it special. It’s fleeting, it’s changing. Everything is burning. 

To know these thoughts, this mind is occurring to you, and a lot of times we identify with ourselves as our thinking mind. And we identify with free will as what we have control over. What we can actually manipulate and change. 

And when we start to cultivate mindfulness and meditation, we start to notice first wow, all of these thoughts are happening to me, but I’m actually not doing it. It’s happening to me. So, if I have no control over it. Would I identify with it? Do you follow?

That is super deep rather, because like, here’s the thing. Like a lot of people, they’re fighting like they are fighting over things that are impermanent, right, in my belief system for instance, I think about impermanence all the time. And I realized. That, yeah, we’re not going to be Alive in 100 years. All the things that we’re fighting over are so petty. And people have all these identity conflicts over religion and that, but they’re not going to be attached to that body or that identity in the future. 

Once you’re dead, you’re no longer identified with that identity or this person. Like all that’s left is your soul. But I mean, I don’t want to. If I were to dive In like it would be a 10-hour conversation. But if people understand impermanence the way you’re talking about it and that we are not Our thoughts, and we don’t have to.

We’ll continue on, but we can kind of ground this. For a lot of the other viewers and listeners out there because we seek to have happiness is the pursuit of happiness. And that’s big in America. That you’re not given happiness. You need to pursue it, and we ought to contribute to society and give back and help people make life better. 

Because thousands and thousands and thousands, millions of countless people. Labored over them. Solved problems over them. And that was all from capitalism mostly. To be able to be at peace. To cultivate a non-striving mind while simultaneously practicing the right effort, right concentration, and right mindfulness, and right livelihood, is one of the teachings from the eightfold Noble path. One of the fundamental teachings of Buddhism, and it’s just a list of eight things about being mindful. But also contributed to society. 

So, can you have a big hairy audacious goal? Go for it. Really change things for your family. For your town, for America, but at the same time does not give a **** if you achieve it or not. But you’re doing everything you can, but this is letting go of having nonattachment. It’s kind of like a love note to the universe or to God saying I’m ready to bring this into my life, but I’m willing to work for it. I’m really willing to sacrifice for it. I’m willing to be very skillful in it. 

At the same time, if it doesn’t happen. I’m not going to kill myself over it. I’ll be at peace with it and it’s a balancing act at the end of the day. So that’s one thing that a lot of meditators have a problem with is that they become too, Fru fru for capitalism or they’re like oh, you know, they might settle for $80,000 a year or $100,000 a year and they think. Big goals are bad. 

Yeah, that’s. One of the things that we also Teach is to be able to balance that. You have a very, very nice lifestyle style, just at the end of the day, no, you can’t put a ******* sorry for cursing. I don’t know if it’s allowed in your podcast, you can’t put it.

That’s fine.

OK, you can’t put a ******* U-Haul. On your casket. Just know that you can also create generational wealth simultaneously to have your family taken care of and your family’s family and your family, family, family, and leave behind a lasting impact for the multitudes of people and innumerable people to help alleviate them from suffering or just knowing that all this material stuff… Yeah, you got to follow all the multi-millionaires and billionaires. You may not be that happy with yourself, though. But you will also find a lot of very wealthy people very happy. It is the great Yin Yang of life. The Equalizer, the ultimate equalizer.

So, Brandon, like, since we were talking about the pursuit of happiness, you know, American identity is about the pursuit of happiness. But it seems like most Americans go about it since the external world. So, from your perspective, how do you blend… How do you balance capitalism with spirituality to create the perfect plan to attain the American identity to pursue happiness like in your, in in, in your, in your Right?

It’s a tall order. It’s a tall order and it’s something that’s never been done before, and that being known, I humble myself before I answer this question, I would Send references. And I would refer to something called an integral theory. And an integral framework for life. I would also refer to meditation. And Zen, which is for people who like simplistic things. And I would say that It’s really hard because each person has a very, very different perspective. 

One person could say this is the ideal lifestyle or the other person is snickering in the background. I also think of Stoicism. Is a great tool. One of the most prolific silk riders with Seneca. Seneca was at the time one of the richest men in Rome. He’s a great, great philosopher.

Is he the one that educated, educated Emperor Nero? Is it the same Seneca?

I believe so. I believe he had affiliations with Nero, I believe so. I’m not sure. So don’t quote me on it, but I. Would say Zen… Solecism… integral theory… These are all very useful tools for answering them. The question of questions at the end Of the day: If we could live a life where we’re not causing harm. Good enough.

So, Brandon.

In my view.

American identity like I was looking at a document like documentaries about how America came to be like they always pushed the frontiers like they were expanded westwards to the Pacific Ocean. 

But I think the ultimate frontier when you’re saying this is the hardest one. But since we’re Americans, I know we can do it. Is the frontier of the Inner world which meditation considers because the internal world where we’re attaining our true nature is the ultimate frontier to be attained because. That’s where the reel happiness of unlimited, like blissful happiness, will come from, from inside.

So, like, it’s a pursuit that we have to follow because we are strong Americans, it is our duty to have the American identity of happiness. But yeah, it’s something that came into my mind.

You know. America was born through a lot of suffering. People wanted a better life. People wanted a better land, and it was innumerable suffering. Our people, our species, came to this continent to settle in the innumerable wars that had on this land that came to the systems that we have today, and it all came from a lot of pain. A lot of suffering, a lot of people saying I’m not going to ******* take this anymore. We’re going to do everything we can to Have a better world. I refuse and let’s get on this ship. Half of us are going to die in the process. I don’t care. Let’s get on. You got a 50/50 shot. 

I mean, that’s what you will get on these boats. Like, half the crew would make it. The other one would get, like, some gnarly disease. And it was in that pain in that suffering, a lot of motivation was there to climb up on the hierarchy of needs, climb up from food, shelter, and water, climb up the family, to climb up, to contribute to society, to climb up to having good relationships. Line up to this self-awareness and who am I? What is this? You’re not going to have a guy in a cave have an existential crisis alone. He’s you. You know, or somebody underneath living underneath the bridge, and they’re not on drugs. They’re not going to be asking themselves. Who am I? What is this? Why am I not happy? They think about the next place that they need to sleep. They think hour by hour, not month by month or year by year. You know, if God. Is real. She is a very, very, very prolific prankster, is like she got a yeah ***ked up sense of humor. His life is dynamic like that, you know. And I’m not saying God is or isn’t real. I’m not going there. I’m just saying if she is. And she said she looked like she had a ****** ** sense of humor.

But you see like if we’re talking about like let’s say the Buddha like Buddha, Teen, Nirvana, or like enlightenment from understanding suffering. 

So perhaps Americans need to go through that suffering to reach our fullest potential because only when we realize and get disillusioned with suffering can we actually go towards a place where we’ll attain a state of enlightenment or true happiness. But I don’t know. That’s just. That’s just like my thought.

So maybe it was Necessary all to all, to begin with Is that this pain of suffering and making it in America, or creating a business? It’s a rite of passage, and to know that. Extinguishes the victim, saying oh, what was me? Why is this happening to me? Why do I suffer? That’s part of it. It’s a part of it, but what goal will you choose to be able to undo the unimaginable pain that you will face in this life? 

Suffering is optional. Pain, though, is going to happen no matter what we’ve all faced. I know a lot of you Viewers out there, you’ve had pain before, so we need to find it. A virtuous goal. A virtuous calling that says, you know. It was all worth it. Totally, yeah.

And like, what is more virtuous than the Americas drive toward freedom, right? This is also something that I wanted to ask you because meditation is ultimately about finding inner freedom, right? But as Americans, like, we try. Or find financial freedom. But we’re also trying to find, like, an inner sense of freedom. 

So, from your perspective, how does meditation play a role in the American identity of, like, being free altogether?

Meditation allows you to realize that you’re already free. You’ve been free since the very, very, very, very beginning. And because of this realization. In your inherent freedom in your true nature. There’s a lot less suffering. You will face the pain, but the suffering then becomes optional. So, as you’re out there grinding, you can grind and face pain. But you don’t have to suffer.

And happiness, a lot of people say, hey when I get there or reach out, I’ll be happy. Happiness is an emotion. It comes and goes Like the tide. But the Being of joy. Of underlying joy in every single thing, you do. That is one of the Fruits of a strong, selfless silence practice. I’ll call it that. Because not everybody, probably somebody out there who has two daughters like, oh, meditation. 

I’m not saying people need to meditate. I’m not like God. ******* delusional, like. Yes, we should all meditate and play the flute. And I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying. The fate of humanity relies on individuals’ abilities. They sit quietly in A Room With themselves for 10 to 15 minutes. And be at peace with Oneself not scrolling on Instagram or on TikTok, or doing that, or the other just being OK. And selfless. 

And if you can be OK with cultivating 10 to 15 minutes of self with Silence per day. You’re going to have a lot less Unnecessary suffering in the past of the Great American Dream, in my view.

That is awesome, Brandon. Yeah, like it’s ultimately our goal in doing that. But Brandon, I know that you have, like your company, modern mindfulness. Can you tell me in the audience a little bit more about the company and what it does?

So, at the end of the day, we do three things. We teach meditation to the general public. Or as I like to call it, selfless silence. 

Two, as we train organizations, a lot of corporations, a lot of Executives, and optimal performance using meditation. To do so. And reach for liberation in your life. 

And then three, is that we train advanced certified Teachers and entrepreneurship and leadership. Those three things over the past three years, we really have a hard focus on social entrepreneurship, training, and leadership training or meditation teachers to bring these teachings to the world. 

And as of lately, we’re starting to teach more in Austin, TX. Nationally and internationally to individuals and organizations, and it’s my vision, our vision to bring meditation to 10% of the world and really make this mainstream popularize to look within us. And that’s what really is what we’re all. About at the end of the day.

That is awesome. Brand I really vibe with your vision because I truly believe that if there are more people doing meditation, the world will definitely become an amazing place. So, Brandon, like, is there any other project that you’re working on right now that you want the audience to get a Glimpse into?

I would say the one project I would like people to get a glimpse into is for the audience to answer this question daily. What would this moment feel like If there were no problems to solve? 

Instead of answering the question, just asking that question and letting go and experiencing the liberation that’s already here, another way of asking that is what’s here “now” when there are no problems to solve. And what that does is hijack the brain, it short circuits the brain to let go of all that problem-solving and just to realize the present moment. Hey, it’s not too bad oftentimes, oftentimes. So that’s the one project I would give to myself and let other viewers.

If you want to check us out, you can find me on LinkedIn. Brandon. MEHRGUT. Also, modern mindfulness.com we are going through a rebrand right now, so you might search that, and find a lot of our materials. We’re going for a simpler brand. And the mindfulness movement is becoming very popularized, and the value of the word mindfulness is diminishing. 

Mark Twain once famously said we’re on the side of the majority. It’s time to Pause and reflect. So, feel free to get in touch. Checking me out on LinkedIn or checking me out, just Google my name. You’ll find Brandon Mehrgut.

That is an awesome Brandon. I’ll definitely recommend my audience to definitely check you out and like help to land for those that are interested in meditation to definitely help you in your cause to spread meditation. Across the world.

Thank you.

They could, because I truly believe in it and I know many people in our audience will also believe In it as well. And so I want to let you know, Brandon, that it is really an honor to have you on the show, because you are blending East with the West, right? 

An eastern thing of spirituality with the Western world of entrepreneurship and we’re combining it together and it’s amazing. And it was like an honor to have you on the show. And I would definitely want to interview. Again, sometime in the future.

Anytime, anytime.

I want to conclude this show by letting my fellow extraordinary Americans know that, hey, there’s an extraordinary within each and every one of us and it’s our duty to unleash it and awaken it until next time. Bye for now.