Welcome back to the show My fellow extraordinary Americans.

For today we have a special guest called Ian Norris. Ian is a business owner and a public speaker. He also has aviation in his blood. He spent most of his life in and around aircraft and airports, and his work experience includes everything from refueling to the maintenance of aircraft of all types. In addition to flying aircraft both in the general aviation and airline arenas, he’s also passionate about excellence in communication.

Some years ago, he realized some similarities could be found between communication between pilots and air traffic controllers and communication between people and the business world. Now allows Ian to share those similarities with those wishing to take their relationships and communication to a new level, and he does so with colorful and interesting real-world examples in speaking engagements.

He earned a degree in aeronautical engineering while on an apprenticeship. At British Airways. And his bachelor’s degree in English after moving to the United States, I’m honored to have Ian on this show, and I’m grateful that he took the time to do this podcast. Ian, are you there?

Hey Cosmos, how are you?

I’m doing good, Ian. Thank you for taking the time to be here. How’s your day going?

Thank you so much for asking me and having me on, and the day’s going great with gorgeous weather. So, it’s going well.

So, Ian, I know you’re a business owner. You’re a public figure, and you’ve been in the aviation industry. Can you tell me in the audience a little bit more about yourself, your background, and how you got started?

So, most of my working life has been around aviation, and the earliest memory I have of that and my falling in love with it came from when I was in the single digits, probably about eight or nine years of age. My dad took me to an air show. And I just fell in love with planes, and it has stuck ever since. I think initially it was the complexity of flying and the beauty of the form, the shape of the aircraft, that grabbed my attention, and knowing how the laws of physics play into that, all of these things coming together to make one beautiful art in my mind, art is what drew me to flying and aviation.

So basically, once I left school, I went into that field, did an apprenticeship with a major airline, and worked on my AMP mechanic’s license. That’s an airframe plan and then shortly after that, right around the age of 22, I went on to get my pilot’s license and pursued that side of things too, so as far as aviation goes, it continued from there. And then I was able to turn it into a business, and I’m doing that and being able to pursue that. I also assist my wife from time to time in her real estate business. So that is taking the aviation passion and moving it into a business or entrepreneurial field. Then, as I mentioned and as you mentioned in the introduction. It wasn’t until I moved to the States after getting married to a girl from Michigan that I pursued flying seriously and went on to develop a career in that. And it took off if you’ll pardon the pun. 

So that’s essentially what got me started, and we’ve done several things along the way. But aviation is just in my blood. You mentioned that, and I just cannot separate myself from it. So, there’s a lot of history there.

So, Ian, how long have you been in the aviation industry?

Oh well. See, now I’m going to end up giving away my age. Let’s say I go. OK? So, in England, at the time that I was in school, we graduated at 16, and I got into aviation just before I left school. Let’s say I’m still in it. So, we are looking …. 34ish years. 

Wow, that’s a pretty long time. So yeah, that’s a lot of years, and you’re probably an expert in a lot of things in the field altogether.

Well, I don’t know whether I’d call myself an expert, but I definitely would say that I’ve come close to doing most of the different aspects of aviation that require or revolve directly around aircraft, you know, groundwork, refueling the aircraft, and maintenance. I can’t think of anything that I haven’t done outside of airport management.

When you started your career in aviation and throughout the years, what was your overall vision and goal, and did it evolve over the years as you continued in this industry?

OK, so the initial aspect or answer to that question will come up again later on, probably in our discussion. I’m always pushing myself to learn something new. Now it may be something new within my fear, or it may be something completely new that I’ve never done before, but I’ve always had this drive, and a part of that that we’ll probably get to is, you know, a lack of self-esteem in certain areas that has driven me to Become a bit of a perfectionist and just keep going. Just keep learning. Just keep taking in new stuff.

So that was the first part, and then over time, I developed an interest in taking the things that I’ve learned—the experiences and the life lessons—and helping others with them. Being able to share that when appropriate. And really, just be more people-focused. I haven’t always been that way. So those are essentially the two driving forces …. Thoughts in my mind.

That’s interesting. Normally, people see aviation and wonder, how did the drive to be people-focused give you the drive to do aviation, of all things? 

OK, so to be honest, the drive for aviation and the passion for that came first. In the process of flying, I had a lot of people ask me to take them on scenic flights. Just local flights, non-revenue flights, and so I found a way to take what I was passionate about and give somebody else the experience of a lifetime. Many people only do that sort of thing on a small plane once. Airlines are a different scenario, but many people don’t get to fly as low as I would take them and be in a small or local setting and get that side. Of the view from the air, you know, normally you’re used to being thousands of feet up there, 10s of thousands of feet, and you’re just going from A to B.

So that’s kind of how those two came together—people asking for those flights and the experience. And then, as I gained more experience and had things happen, I found lessons in them myself. I then began to find or look for ways to apply those in my speaking and public engagements that way.

Well, when I was reading your bio, the first thought that came to mind was that, throughout human history, humans have never had airplanes. They only had airplanes until the 20th century. This is a completely new field. It’s only been there for 100 years.

A lot of people would have been scared of flying altogether, so it takes a lot of courage to be somebody that wants to, at least in my perspective, be someone that goes and flies in the air, you know, 10s of thousands of feet. What is the internal thing that I made you do? I was so passionate about it. That it overcame all fear in the first place.

Well, again, I’ll be honest and say that I never really had that fear. My love of flying wasn’t shaded or colored in any way by the size of the plane or the age of the plane meant I never really had to deal with that particular aspect, but certainly, I’ve had many passengers who struggled with the fear of flying—just that basic core fear—and essentially, I’ve been able to talk with them before the flight. Open that up to questions. I would also be able to explain certain aspects of it, whether they’re looking for technical answers to the flying side of things or just overall comfort. You know, whatever it was that they needed, I would endeavor to find it. And I would endeavor to address that for them. 

There have been those who have been determined to go flying with me and are still basically frozen inside the plane when we’ve gone up. And essentially, I would just be very focused on how they were reacting and how they were dealing with it. Where I thought that they might be emotional, if necessary, we would just bring the flight to an end, but I would walk them through each step verbally, so I would do my very best to help them and walk them through those fears and concerns. And I think that’s the situation that I’ve dealt with. As I said, I never really had that fear myself.

Well, because I know a lot of people who, when the first time they started flying, went into an airplane, were scared because it was just a completely new experience, at least for me when I was a child. Well, when my parents took me on a plane, I saw it just go onto the runway and just go up. It was a very interesting experience. 

But Ian. What is one of the greatest lessons that you learned during your time in the aviation industry?

The first significant lesson is that you’ve got to find your “why” if you have a “why” that is big enough. The motivation. The reason for pursuing something is that you will eventually achieve it. You can overcome whatever obstacles may come your way, and you’ll overcome your fears. If your “why” is big enough, and conversely, if it’s not big enough if you are being held back by fears, hesitations, or obstacles, then again, that vote emphasizes the fact that the motivation hasn’t been made big enough for you to get past that.

So that was the first thing, and going to the fierce aspect of it again, there may be actual physical fears with flying, where there may be a real fear of being in a small plane or any plane. It may be a fear of heights. It may be a fear of so many different things, but again, if I found that when I wanted it enough, I could find a way either through or over that fear, so that’s pretty much the biggest lesson I found. And then, of course, beyond that. If you put your mind to that well-known lesson, which is that if you put your mind to it, you can accomplish just about anything,

In my previous discussion with a lot of guests, whenever I would ask them how they overcame fear, knowing their “why” and being passionate about it usually tended to be something so strong that it overcame any hurdles. A lot of people do things that they’re not passionate enough about or they don’t know the “why” they do the things they do. Most people just leave. They’re not leading lives of meaning and purpose, which they find fulfilling, because they don’t know their “why”. 

So I do agree that knowing why is the most important thing.   You know, I kind of emphasize how important That aspect is actually.

Yeah, that is wise. And I will say this: there have been things I’ve attempted in my life that haven’t gotten off the ground. I haven’t been able to pursue them, and I’ve realized, looking back, that’s exactly why because aviation was in my blood. I was passionate, and I used that word a lot, but for these other things, I just, for some reason, could not find a passion to drive me through the first obstacle or the second obstacle. Whatever it may have been.

So, Ian, as a continuation of this previous question I asked, what are the, uh, these lessons you learned in aviation, and how can this be applied in the business realm? What are some of the two to three top things that we can apply from what you’ve learned from your action history to business or entrepreneurship in general?

Well, we’ve kind of touched on some key ones that we just mentioned about finding your “why” and motivation, which applies just as much in the business world as it does in any other aspect of life. Something that I do cover or talk about in one of my presentations when I do public speaking is that I connect or find similarities between communication in flight and between pilots and air traffic control with communication in other aspects of life, whether it be business, personal relationships, or just friendships. 

I think that it’s a big subject. Communication is such a big thing that it can get quite charged. If you want to go down certain roads on that subject. Communication can make or break a business. Any relationship, business or otherwise, might be on a one-to-one level or it might be on a company-to-consumer level. You know it can be anywhere between.

For me, I’ve thought about how we can be conscious of our community. How can we think about ways to communicate in a way that will draw the listener in as opposed to giving them power or even perhaps just enabling them to be passive? We don’t want to do that; in other words, rather than repel them or cause them to be passive, we want to draw them to us. In whatever capacity you’re asking about business right now.

So, in a business capacity, that’s something that I’ve noticed, thought about, and tried to apply from my aviation experience because, in aviation, communication is very structured. Are there principles and books that are written by the various authorities that direct us on how we communicate within aviation thinking, mostly between pilots and controllers? I’m not necessarily talking about the ground. In other aspects, but basically, they’ve structured it so well, and I’m not suggesting that life be that structured, but communication, in general, should be. Have a direction. There should be some thought put into it. What do I want to achieve? What do I want the listener to get from it? What motivation or what action do I want to see from them in response to that?

So, there are some things that we can do with these concepts. Puts thought into the communication intention and, you know, is a little bit better and a little bit more successful with it. Does that make sense?

It’s still not normally a given that people think that communication means they know how to communicate. But I realized over the years that, just interacting with other businesspeople, a lot of times is a simple thing, yet it’s really difficult to do because sometimes you don’t know whether you’re trying to be professional, or you just want to be informal. And all this is a balance in between, right? It’s something that’s known, as some people are just too professional and profit-oriented, whereas others are just too much of A people-pleaser. And then and then, people don’t know the fine line of that. 

But Ian, I wanted to know, what are the Parallels between what pilots and air control people do, and how can you apply this in business altogether?

Expanding a little bit on what I was saying just now, there are, generally speaking, four steps or aspects to communication between pilots and controllers, and there are sometimes ways that we can take those four essential or basic steps and apply them to our communication again.

Whom are we talking to? Who is our customer, or our audience, the listener? Who is that person? That obviously would then open up additional information; you know their background, who they are, what they experience, what their cultural leanings are, and whom we are dealing with on the other end of our conversation. Who are we? What position are we coming into that conversation from? Are we offering something? Are we providing some sort of service? Is this just the communication of two peers? You know that that aspect can be beneficial, don’t you? And then, when it comes to pilots and controllers, what do we want? What is our objective? And where are we now?

So, if our objective in a conversation of any sort is to get to this point in life, to achieve this result, to get this product, or to provide this service, where are we now about where we want to be? How can we structure our communication? To help us get there, that’s just one of the tours or one of the ideas that we can take from aviation. And perhaps apply to other aspects of our lives. 

Personal relationships have a lot more flexibility and perhaps a little less of this structured approach, but again, it can help us to think about what we’re going to say, how it might sound and come across to the listener, and then the response that may create in them, whether negative or positive.

The one interesting thing I noticed is that you mentioned the customer, or the audience, and communication with them and knowing what they want. And I know it’s really simple for a lot of people, but a lot of times businesses create products and services without even knowing where their audience or customers would even be. Want that product and service in the first place? 

They feel that, from their perspective, they should want it. But in reality, what they should do is test out a small, tested product, or an MVP, a minimally viable product. Where does my audience, or the avatar of a customer, want it? It’s a simple mistake that costs businesses a lot. They don’t know what their audience wants, so it’s an interesting point you brought up.

Thank you. Yeah. And if I may, on that point, I’m involved with an organization that does R&D. And one of the things that we have been heavily invested in and working on is a machine that takes household waste plastic and converts it back to oil and other usable products.

And so, what you just said—maybe think of that because we’re looking at the need first. What is the need, whether it be by an individual consumer or by a larger corporation, a state, or even a country, and then finding a way to provide that product or that service that answers that need? As a result, we have implemented it in the lead-in process to develop and work on this machine. So, what you were saying just made me think of that. That’s exactly how we approached that, and we’re now at the point where we’ve just about wrapped up the R&D stage and are on the verge of getting an order or two for those machines. So anyway. You just made me think of that.

No congratulations on that. I was just thinking while you were talking about how a lot of business owners get into a bubble where they talk to themselves because they’re in love with their products. 

But in the process, they fail to realize that, oh man, I invested all this in myself. Does my audience, my avatar, or my customers want what they want? And when they don’t, they don’t understand why their business failed. But it’s something that I thought about, yeah. 

Ian, I wanted to ask you this question about buying aviation: what was the biggest challenge you faced while you were in the aviation industry, and how did you overcome it?

OK, so that’s a good question. And that brings us back to what I was hinting at earlier on. Perhaps you wouldn’t necessarily think this of someone who went into flying, but for me, the biggest challenge has always been a struggle with self-esteem, for lack of a better way of describing it, always had this thing holding me back, saying, well, you don’t; you can’t do that. You aren’t able to do that, or you don’t have the right to do that.

And I think that was a lot of what drove me to keep learning and keep pushing because I found that every time this personality trait was trying to hold me back, I would resist it and fight by trying to push harder forward. 

So, for me, that was probably long-term. Sorry about that. It’s my long-term. That’s probably been the biggest thing that I’ve had to contend with. And you know, it’s one of those. Things that. Hasn’t gone away. Maybe it’s diminished a bit. It will probably never completely go away. That’s just a part of my personality. But at the same time, it does drive me crazy because it’s there. It drives me harder to offset or overcome it.

Ian, I respect the fact that even though you think that you have self-esteem, you don’t. You’re using it as a driving factor in motivation because a lot of people have low self-esteem, but they would use it as an excuse not to do the things that they want to do. Saying that they cannot do it.

So, in your case, you did the opposite approach: You used it to push yourself further and further and get what you wanted. Whereas for most other people, it’s kind of fight or flight, no pun intended, and they would not do it so. What would be your advice for someone who has low self-esteem? They’re passionate about something, but they don’t believe that they can do it.

Well, certainly. And we’ve emphasized this a lot in this conversation. Certainly, getting that passion is a big part of it because, again, when you are passionate about something, it will carry you through a lot of the obstacles and things that would otherwise hold you back. It will carry you a long way in that regard.

I would go look for people who are doing what you want. To do in the field or in the direction in life that you want to go in and ask them to help you; maybe even approach them with the idea of having them be a mentor for you. But in other words, look to people who can help you and allow them to guide you, because there will be times and days when your passion will take over. Still isn’t quite enough. To carry you through the obstacles and the things that are holding you back, so have somebody else to lean on for that.

Maybe it’s having somebody else be accountable too, depending on what it is you’re trying to achieve. You know, I think of dieting and weight loss sometimes, or weight gain if you’re trying to put on weight. Sometimes it’s more about having someone to be accountable to. When you don’t want to go to the gym, you know a couple of things. Educate yourself as much as you can in that field or that area that you’re interested in. I suppose if you have this luxury, do the best you can to surround yourself with people who have the same goals, the same passions, and the same direction in life. 

They say that you are the average, shall we say, or the result of the closest people you hang around with, and so if you hang around with people who are looking to go in the same direction as you, your chances of actually doing that thing yourself go up significantly.

No, totally. Yeah, I agree with that. What is something that you wish you had known at the beginning of your aviation career? And if somebody wants to start? Their aviation career, what advice would you give to them?

Another good question. So, I would say it is… I wish I could have learned not to sweat the small stuff. 

I wish that I wasn’t so hyper-focused on the details of things. I do know there are times when you have to be. There are times when it’s necessary, but I do know that overall, that has helped me. More than it’s helped me. You know, when you have to deal with those, I think if I had learned to focus on the big picture, the end goal, the oval or view what it was I was trying to accomplish and just focus on that, but deal with and get on with the details, or if necessary, find someone who can help me with those details but still be focused on things beyond those details that probably would have helped me. To keep more doors, open in life than perhaps I did. Applying that specifically to aviation.

One aspect of it is that I do have regrets. I do wish that I had done things. I was more proactive earlier in life, and there were plenty of times when I held myself back and thought I would wait for a better time. Maybe not the perfect time, but better conditions, and I do wish that I hadn’t. So again, a lot of that comes back to sweating the small stuff. I got too caught up in the details and the obstacles that I could find if I looked too closely instead of focusing on the end goal, the result, and just saying, If I stay focused here, I will find a way to make these smaller pieces of the puzzle come together.  

Yeah, it’s a very interesting point you make. 

Ian, on a different note, this is different from the question I’m asking, but it’s more about America. They say that America is the land of the free and the place where dreams are made. So as a person who came from Britain to America, what are your thoughts?

OK, so my wife is from Michigan, and I’m, as you mentioned, from England. We’ve had a policy or an approach that all countries have something to offer, and all countries have things that are not so good, and we do our best to try and focus on the positive aspects of each country, certainly, there are many positives about this country, many things that we can benefit from. I just, I just think that it’s up to the individual. To take advantage of what’s available within their country, some countries do make things harder to do, and you know we’re talking at a very high level, there is no specific environment here, but generally speaking, whatever is available to us, whatever we can do within the country, it’s up to the individual to decide how much they want to capitalize on that.

What is considered successful for one person may be different for somebody else, and we can’t say that person is successful, but that one isn’t. If that one is also doing what they’re passionate about. As much as the first one. Then they’re both successful. 

So really, all I can say about that is that if we can capitalize on the things that are available to us in the country, we’re in, we can achieve a lot. We can achieve what we want within those realms, and certainly, this country does offer a lot. It does make a lot available to us if we’re willing and interested in reaching out for it, pursuing it, and taking advantage of it.

I agree with the point that you can be successful in this country if you put in whatever you want to do. You have more opportunities to make it successful, and over here, success means different things to different people, right? Normally, people have a certain idea of what success is, but success for one person is different from another.  

Yeah, I remember Earl Nightingale having listened to a recording of him in the old days of cassette tapes. I listened to that over and over again. He used to say a corporate owner is a business owner with a huge corporation and many millions of dollars moving hands and flying back and forth for him or her if that was their desire, then they are successful. 

Equally, A housewife or somebody who’s doing a job that isn’t owning a business—you know, it might even be a janitor or something of that nature— All of these are respectful careers, and if that person’s goal and their passion were to do those things, they would be just as successful as the person who owns a multinational corporation. It’s all about what that individual wants and what it is that drives them and makes them get up each day. And that’s their success. And they are as successful as the next person when they do that.

Ian, I love that you say that because I think in today’s society, a lot of people consider success to be being a celebrity or something, either in athletics or movie stars like Leonardo DiCaprio. Or, if you’re looking at athletes like the great basketball player Michael Jordan or something, what they don’t realize is that success is whatever you are passionate about or whatever truly gives you fulfillment, and then you go about achieving that. 

They are too busy looking at other people’s lifestyles and their vision of their desires without looking into what? They want to do something; their definition of success is whatever the mainstream puts out rather than what they do. I truly want you to know.

Yeah, and comparisons can be useful in some ways. It’s often noted that comparing ourselves to others can have a very negative impact. Like you just said.

Yeah, I just hope that they don’t define success by other people for a while. They define success as: what is their goal? What is their vision? They strive to achieve it and find fulfillment in that. And a fulfilled life can also be considered a successful life, even though Yeah, that’s not what the mainstream is about. So yeah. 

So, Ian, I know you talked about communication, empathy, and understanding the other person. And all the things that you learned in the aviation industry, I was thinking about how they could be applied in our society today.

You know, there are a lot of divisions and a lot of different things. And everything seems to be more of a narcissistic mentality where they’re in their separate bubbles but don’t try to understand each other. So, what are your thoughts on how they can increase on a societal level in this nation? We can increase empathy, communication, and understanding.

That’s a tough one. Talking about fundamental cultural changes. Boy, that’s tough. This is probably going to sound a bit cliche, but it is it’s you. You mentioned narcissism, and that’s very true. It seems we’re seeing more and more of those qualities in society. And I think the more we see that the more the only thing we can do is increase our patience with that. 

To be able, you know, to give you something or to say something that will fix society. I don’t have that, but really. For those who dig deep into things, it does, but oftentimes that’s just the front. That’s just the outward appearance of the individual.

But there’s something else going on behind the scenes that’s causing those qualities to emerge. And for those who are looking to help individuals in that regard, it’s going to take digging way beyond the surface, much deeper into that person, and finding out what might be behind these narcissistic qualities or these personality traits that are showing themselves before we can even begin to figure out how to address that, my wife is very much into psychology, and she’s talked to me a bit. 

About that, but it’s going to take a lot of patience, a lot of empathy, and a lot of understanding, even if we don’t understand, and giving the other person the benefit of the doubt, choosing to find the good behind their actions rather than just perhaps the outward negative actions, but trying to give them the benefit of doubt. That’s about all I can offer on that one.

No, Ian, I think patience is a very important quality, and I also try to understand the other person’s point of view and ultimately understand that you are ultimately something bigger than your identity, because a lot of divisions come from identity. And if you realize that you and we are all ultimately just one. You live for a certain amount of time, but w e came from one source, and we ultimately go back to that source, identifying ourselves with that source. That is, I think, usually the case. the solution, you know.

Yeah, it’s a big subject. That’s a very big and deep subject.

So, Ian, I know you do a lot of these public speaking engagements. Can you tell me in the audience a little bit more about this?

So, we touched on this earlier. I tried to build. In my presentations and my talks around things that I’ve learned again, aviation has been such a central part of my life. I often find that I can find or bring similarities from that into other aspects of life. So that’s basically where it started, and I try to offer thoughts to others or points that will help them in basic ways. Help them bring, say, communication back to the grassroots level and just kind of refresh our minds and thoughts on some of those core values that we have gotten a little bit lost in life and in the rat race. Based on the tumultuous lives that we live Today. 

So yeah. And you know, there are other aspects or other things that I’m working on as subjects for discussion, talks, and presentations are important, but it’s really about just trying to get back to those grassroots. That’s why I think about it when I’m preparing to give a speech or a presentation to a group of people. Let’s try and have that high. Altitude view again rather than get caught up in the small stuff, the tiny little details. Try to look at it from a bigger-picture perspective and look at some of those core values. Those core, basic areas of life that can, then we can build upon it.

Ian, you bring up a great point. When you mentioned the high altitude, there is a thing that I always think about, and that’s the 30,000-foot perspective. Because I feel a lot of people they getting Engaged in heavy battles, and they get dragged into things that are microcosms, but they don’t see the big picture. 

And sometimes, if you look from a high altitude and then narrow it down to the basic, specific points, you get to the solution a lot faster. And if you were, if you started smaller, then from there you went bigger and bigger. But yeah, for me, 30,000. For perspective, that’s usually how I operate. I try to see the big picture, and then it gives me a sense of clarity, you know.

And it’s a point that you can return to when you do start to get caught up in the minutiae and the trenches, so to speak. It gives you a place to go back to so you can refocus and get a better view of that objective. Again, come out of the grass and see the whole picture.

You know, Ian, I don’t think I would mention this to you, but I have gone skydiving twice. It is something that I love, I get excited whenever I do it; I did both times and when I jumped from the plane at 120 miles an hour, it was the most amazing rush. And then, when the parachute finally came about, we just went parachuting down. I saw the sunset on the horizon, and I saw the entire earth.

And I just realized… Man, this is so small. everybody’s saying, Oh, you’re so small.  We have these every day. And then, just while I was parachuting down, I was thinking, Man, you know, the problems that we have are so petty compared to the vastness of space and time in a million years. If you look at the distance, everything is so big, and we need to think about it in big terms, and we want to have lasting fulfillment and happiness, because we’re ultimately part of this great universe, and I don’t know, it was just something that came to my mind that I had to share.

That’s interesting. Yeah, I know you said that it would be a rush. I have to ask, what would be before you get to the edge… The lip of the doorway what’s going through your mind at that point?

I was scared out of my mind. I’m thinking, what if this parachute fails? But then I’m like, Okay if I do hit the earth, I’m not even going to feel it. It’s going to be instant, and then Suddenly I get pushed, and then I’m just going, and I was thinking, “Oh. Man” I’m in this air, and I’m just falling at 100 miles an hour, and I’m trusting the guy behind me to take the parachute off. But the rush is so good, and it just makes you feel alive, right? 

Because, you know, when there’s a kind of risk of death, all of a sudden you realize that. Life is so beautiful; it makes you want to live more, but it also makes you feel alive and energetic, and it gives you that rush that normal immunity in life would not have. It also makes you think about the beauty of life altogether because you see a sunset in the distance. You see everything down there, and that’s where my first thought of the 30,000-foot perspective started rising.

Man, I’ve been thinking of things in such a way a small way, and instead, I need to think of it from this angle because when you think of it from such a huge angle, where you see everything, then you can use strategies and tactics to solve the individual pieces, the individual battles, and all that stuff. Some people see the forest for the trees, and others see trees in the forest. I’m more of a farmer. You have to see the macro first and then zone in on the micro because once you know the macro, the micro makes more sense, but I don’t know what. What do you think about that?

That’s true; that makes perfect sense. I love the fact that you’re an example of being initially overcome, shall we say, by fear, but then going past that. You found a way beyond that, even if it meant someone else pushing you. You found the way to get through that obstacle, and then there was the swirl and the exhilaration of it, and all those thoughts that you just described this view you have as you’re falling to the earth. And how that view applies to life in other ways, and that’s exactly it. That’s exactly where the lessons come from. That’s great.  

I mean, I think skydiving changed my perspective on a lot of things, especially seeing things from a different perspective. It also made me want to go visit the mountains because I knew when you’re right on the ground, you can’t see the horizon that much. But when you’re up there, in a tall place or the sky, you can suddenly get clarity, and yeah, that’s what I realized, you know?

Yeah, it’s a It’s a whole other world up there. I always. enjoy being able to take a picture when it’s appropriate inside a plane with the culprit and then caption It with my view, my office view, and it’s just a whole different world. It is.

No. Yeah, but.  

I get excited just thinking about it.

Yeah, but, Ian, how can my audience connect with you and get to know more about you, your work, your speaking engagements, and all of that?

Well, if they want to reach out to me if they have any questions, they can do so, and I can give you an e-mail address, which is IanNorris007@gmail.com (Ian Norris, as in Chuck NORIS. 007@gmail.com.) But one of the things that we’re doing, and I don’t know if you intended to ask this question, is that I’m working as a mentor with a local high school, and we are guiding them through the building… Right now, we’re building two small general aviation aircraft, and they’re learning everything from how to use hand tools—not even touching the aircraft, but just how to use the hand tools. Maintenance and mechanical skills, you know, using how to draw hose and then to make sure that you do it in the right way for that application, measurements, and mathematics, you need to know a lot of basic skills. We’re building aircraft, which they will then get to fly when they’re finished and approved for flight.

So, if anyone’s interested in reading more about that, they could look it up online at tangoflight.org. That’s not an initiative that I have created or started. I’m just involved with that. It’s something that we’re doing in the local community, and again, it’s focusing on local high school children if somebody isn’t interested in it. That, or aviation, or bringing the two together, might be something they could do. Look into it, but otherwise, they can reach out to me at the email address I gave, and I will be happy to help out or answer any questions that they may have.

That is awesome and thank you for sharing that with us. And I want to let you know that it was an honor to have you as a guest on this podcast, as your understanding of aviation and its principles in business is. It’s amazing, especially when it comes to communication because I know that’s often an overlooked thing, and it’s these simple things that, when you understand him, usually lead to massive Yes, I do hope. That you come back later in the show.

I appreciate that. Thank you. And I know you know we didn’t talk about a big aspect of one of my experiences, which was a plane crash I was in. So maybe another time we’ll get a chance to talk about that, but for the lessons that I learned from that, I appreciate you having me on. Thank you so much.

Yeah, definitely. Well, I’ll ask you about that next time I talk to you, you know, but I want to conclude this show by letting my fellow extraordinary Americans know that. Look, there’s something extraordinary within every one of us, and we must awaken it and unleash it until next time. Bye for now.